Re: NASCAR channel.... bad idea

[Gary Huff <scirocco86@home.com>]

On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 11:51:40PM -0400, Shawn C Meze wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:48:41 -0500 Gary Huff <scirocco86@home.com>
> writes:
> > I heard you guys are going to become the nascar channel, let me tell 
> >you how much that is stupid and sucks. You are the only real channel 
> >to cover rally, formula, and *REAL* racing. Not circle track small 
> >block chevy redneck american racing. 
> 
> 
> I don't know if you have noticed BUT, Nascar has been far more viewable
> for the average racing spectator/enthusiast that F1. don't get me wrong,
> I love racing of all kinds. Including the boring F1 and a majority of the
> oval racing scene. Nascar does do a couple (3 actually) road racing
> events a year and they're always worth watching. And if you think the
> drivers are not good enough to compete with "real drivers" then tell me
> why 3 of the "hired guns of road racing" finished far back in the field
> at the last event? Apparently the oval guys can turn right too. :)
> 
> FWIW, Nascar IS real racing. Real cars, real teams, real people. Know
> that Speedvision does show alot of the nascar divisional tour's as part
> of their regular programming. Its kind of like the Nascar minor league
> all over the U.S. (If you watched as much Speedvision as I do, you would
> know this...heh!) They also show the Truck series and the Bush series.
> Its way better than watching boats racing. WAY!
For the average spectator yes, for someone who appreciates the way autos interact with their environments, no. Simply put, NASCAR is lame. Yeah, I don't watch much speedvision, im usually too busy doing other things like coding or playing with UNIX to turn my TV on. Hence I stated it's one of the few reasons my magic glowing box gets used :) Real racing? Blah.... it's fixed if you ask me. Besides,I like cars that do more than turn left/right. The three hired guns of road racing finished last? No surprise, plenty of merchandise sales and tons of revenue depend on certain drivers winning -- it's the american way. NASCAR is the pro wrestling of racing, IMHO. I think you just dig it since you bought your vette :) Admit it, you've been converted into a displacement junkie! heh.

> 
> >I have been watching speedvision 
> >since it was available on my cable network -- and I will simply stop 
> >along with many other dedicated real race/engineering fans if you move 
> >the format to nothing but stupid NASCAR. 
> 
> 
> 
> No you wont because it would never become NASCAR only TV. Even tho the
> Nascar scene is like a damn soap opera, there is simply NOT enough of an
> entertainment value to have a 24 hour Nascar channel. (Then again, they
> did it with Golf. Golf? WTF. Whatever.) They will probably continue more
> like they are now and add NASCAR events to the lineup. NASCAR is so big
> now that FOX and NBC had to split the season for this year on the
> coverage. Its BIG and everybody is trying to get their share of the money
> pot while they can. 
 Shawn, *NEVER* underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Look at Golf, and the Golf channel(yeah I agree.. golf... wtf... lamest sport ever, it's for old rich fucks who can't do anything else but dream about money. In fact, my retarded boss who read about 2 copies of Windows NT magazine and thinks he is some elite computing god watches that channel, he's as lame as they get.) . The US has a rich to redneck ratio of about 10 to 1 no doubt, and giving NASCAR it's own channel would grab alot of that old milwaukee swilling, gun toting attention. Think about the revenue, NASCAR really is a soap opera, I caught an interview channel surfing once of some fans, this lady and her family were obsessed with it, so these creatures do exist :) They went as far as to practically purchase everything they could supporting their favorite driver, consequently making his checking account that much fatter. This idea has two things on it's side -- power of stupid people in large groups, and the power of stupid people in large groups willing to watch this crap, and pay for merchandise.  
> 
> 
> >NASCAR is low tech right turn racing. 
> 
> 
> If you have ever looked into the sport, you would know that this is an
> ignorant statement or at best, one made in anger? These cars are built
> around a stringent set of rules. The construction starts with CAD
> engineering. Some of which goes thru extensive testing even before the
> design gets built. 

Yeah, I guess it takes a lot of blazing technology to jack weight so that you can do 200mph around a right turn oval track, and running tons of camber on one side of the car. CAD engineering? Big shit, CAD has been around forever, and most if not all modern cars are designed on CAD systems. Any other way is silly at this point in the technology timeline. Stringent rules? Limiting the amount of fuel their holly's can flow? It's just silly, I see no point in this racing but to sell more GM & Ford products, and to generate large amounts of revenue off of old milwaukee swilling gun toting rednecks. Extensive testing, just like anything else that has four wheels and moves under it's own power should. Computer simulation of that kind of thing has been around for a long time -- anyone telling you otherwise is lui, living under the influence. In fact, I caught the tail end of NASA's head of computing speaking to SGI about how they needed alternative computing technologies in order to model complex weather patterns over the period of years, decades, and centuries. Petaflops, 10^18 IIRC< or a million billion floating point operations per second. That's quite a bit of crunching power, and we've had adequate crunching power around to do far more than silly NASCAR testing and modeling forever, but I suppose this was a slight tangent. I just don't think NASCAR is hi tech in the least, and this is furthered by the circumstances surrounding the death of Dale Earnhardt. I'm sure had NASCAR thought about safety more, and used some sort of a harness which surpressed oscillations of the neck and what not, he'd probably be alive, but again a tangent. I guess it breaks down to personal view, and I simply think that NASCAR is lame. Sue me for my evil opinion :)
> The engines that are built are under a microscope. The quality and
> technology that goes into making the motors is simply amazing and as a
> result, has trickeled down to the low bucks racer. These cars are
> constantly inspected and reinspected to keep the field equal. 1/2 pound
> of air pressure change in ONE tire can completely change the way the car
> handles. How is this low tech? 
Ok, ok I give you that. NASCAR small block chevy motors are built under a microscope, but it's still a well built small block chevy -- something plenty of people have been building for years. No cutting edge technology there. Just a lot of experience prep'ng certain motors. 1/2lb of air pressure changing the way a car handles isn't low tech I suppose, it's just a by-product of low tech stuff in action. Nobody said you couldn't make low tech cars handle well, and go fast. A friend of mine drives an 11 second camaro with 580whp. When he gets back from military duty in IRAQ, he's putting a six speed in it with a decent rear end. Top speed of 175mph, and believe me the car will get there... it's a third gen iroc, and this car scares me. It's low tech as hell, but it certainly moves and does it well..... just not my thing. I'd rather spend my time playing with VW's or furthering myself so I can attain the kind of cars i'd like to play with -- S4, or something forcefully induced with a modern 4wd system. In fact, my next car is going to be the next gen A4 in S trim. Again, simply personal preference on my part, I like pushing the envelope and cars that do it with grace, positive manifold vacuum, and 4 wheels pushing :) .
 
> Everything on the cars are scrutinized from the brakes, shocks, motors,
> trannies, suspension, aerodynamics, you name it, its got a specialist
> that works day and night trying to figure a way to make it a little
> faster than the next guy. This IS what racing is all about. 
Yeah, I suppose, but when your doing the same things over and over to small block chevy motors..... just not my thing. No thanks. Think about what would happen if these specialists would quit wasting their time screwing with NASCAR, and maybe apply their skills in the arena of development, and testing *real* cars. We live in an interesting time with great technology, lets further it and push the envelope, not sit here trying to improve existing technology of which the absolute limits are known. Again, I guess it's personal preference :)

> F1 is so boring that I find the qualifying is actually the best part.
> (Yes, I watch all of that too.) The only good thing this year is there
> are actually 3 teams that are fast. (Unprecedented in the last 10 years.
> Look it up. Oh, and only because the traction control devices were
> allowed for all to use. ) Mercedes, BMW and Ferrari can win a race at any
> given day. (although Ferrari is still favored heavily.) Then consider
> that the rules for F1 are vastly different and the funds that go into a
> team for one season could fund a medium size nation! Anyways, these are
> just some of my observations. 
Agreed, I'm really not much of an F1 fan, I just like watching it. It's pushing the envelope, and the technology implemented is quite simply divine. Yeah, you want to go fast, it takes piles of green cash :) That is what pushing the envelope is about. This is the technology which builds real cars, such as the mercedes CLK-GTR, Mclaren F1 etc.... Much more impressive than a C5 corvette, or SBC motors in NASCAR chassis' flying around an oval track in my opinion, but that's me.  
> If you don't like Nascar, fine, don't like it. Just be sure you hate it
> for the right reasons. 
I do, and rightfully so. It's a fixed soap opera with an underlying theme of selling more GM & Ford products, along with making some drivers rich. I suppose that's doing no harm to me, so let it be. I just think it's silly, kind of like drag racing high displacement vehicles. It's something that has been done and rehashed over and over again with little or no new things happening. In fact, I favorimport drag racing much more due to the fact that it's mostly little guys pushing the limits of low displacement motors, and seeing how well they hold up, along with how much power they can safely get out of them. The exception to this being my friends 11 second camaro -- but i'm trying to get him into pro-solo racing it when he gets back. Believe it or not, you can kind of make solid axle rwd cars handle well with the right provisions. Just not my thing. So yeah, I do hate it for all the right reasons. It's a waste of time/money/energy IMHO, and that time/money/energy applied elsewhere could be furthering modern technology. Time is something we don't get back...  
> 
> >Have a little diginity, and don't sell out to the disgusting 
> >fat redneck american motors sponsored empire.
> 
> 
> Dude, don't hold back, tell us how you feel! And don't forget, the south
> is DEAD! Im with ya bro! :)
LOL! I hate low tech racing, thats just how I feel heh. NASCAR is what drives the kids around me to race their rwd solid axle Trans AM's and SS camaros, consequently wrecking them and doing 360's since they can't handle throttle induced oversteer. Yes, I know this isn't directly related to NASCAR, but it's the same basic train of thought... I just think if the attention/money/energy that was focused on NASCAR was applied elsewhere the racing world would benefit greatly. Wouldn't you rather see forcefully induced all wheel drive cars at affordable prices which have such linear torque curves it makes you sick? I sure would. The only way that will happen is when the general public wakes up and sees this kind of thing as being better than NASCAR. Shit i'd probably be happy if NASCAR came up with another class -- strictly dedicated to forcefully induced AWD vehicles pushing the envelope of what can be done within the terms of classical phsyices. Apples for people who want them, and oranges for those who want them.... hehe, yeah the south is dead, but I still listen to Skynrd and CCR. Just don't tell anyone I do -- i'd be an outcast for sure :( Peace,
	-Gary "forcefully induced AWD cars are the way -- you will be assimilated" Huff

> 
> Shawn Méze
> 86' Jetta GLi 8V       84' Scirocco 8V           88' Corvette -SS 30-
> 82' Scirocco GTi -FSP 54-     79' "Project FSP Scirocco"
> The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and best looking Scirocco in all of San

> Diego!
> http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm
> 
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