Re: Audio nuts only

["Mike" <lerb@redrose.net>]

    Sounds like you are forced into a comprimise because of where you
live...I am glad this is not the case here. The last person that poked his
nose into my car by way of a crowbar was met at the other door with my nine
milimeter. For some odd reason he was willing to pay me twice what my door
damage was to not be turned over to the police ( I did not take it tho). Too
bad situations like this are all too common....I will make ayone custom
panels from the list at cost if they ever wish to get out of the stock
crappy system situation.  You are just not able to  make a oval speaker
produce the sounds that are sometimes desired. The oval speaker in the worst
desighn ever made!
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Holmes <aholmes@chubb.com>
To: Mike <lerb@redrose.net>
Cc: <bgsterling@earthlink.net>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Audio nuts only


> Ok fair enough but not many people wish to hack their door panels or even
fit
> custom panels in order to obtain a set up like yours. Taking the standard
door
> apertures with 6*4 which if i read correctly the original mail from
William is
> using a comprimise has to be made between soundstage/depth/volume and the
only
> way without changing the apertures is to use rear speakers.
> Whilst i appreciate this is not ideal,  for everyday use it is fine and i
have
> no intention of entering any competitions for any aspect of in-car stereo.
> In an ideal world i would follow the route you have taken but the
prohibitive
> cost in the UK of custom panels and high end car hi-fi not to mention our
> appalling amount of car theft make the value of such a set up dubious
here.(i.e.
> approaching the cars value and thus uninsurable)
> Just as a point the cost of my front end set up is approxiamately a third
more
> than the rear but because i use the stock apertures in the front (with
seperate
> tweeters) i require 6*9 in the rear to provide the extra depth (40-100hz)
to
> complete the soundstage.
> As i pointed out before this is appropriate to UK spec cars and may help
anyone
> who is beginning thier own custom install. A three way set up in the which
is
> anyway visible (in fact any visible quality hi-fi) especially in London
where i
> live (all my speakers other than the tweeters are hidden - fronts in
standard
> apertures, rears in custom "Stealth" shelf/deck which makes setting up
very
> hard) usually results in a short time in the theft of the vehicle or the
> components with large damage.( i have had 3 break-ins and 4 lots of
vandalism in
> the past 18 months)
>
> Anyway thankyou for your comments which i read with interest and you never
know
> my increased knowledge may well help in the future.
>
> Andy
> 91Scala 8v
> Mike wrote:
>
> > I have a three way system in the front with a  6"1/2, 5"1/4, and a
titanium
> > 1" tweet in each door powered by a 4X50 PPI. All of this is driven by a
Sony
> > deck into a parabolic divider.....No actually I do not have a loss of
sound
> > Q in the front...but then again I do not think many peoples front stage
is
> > so indepth. I have seen it many times in competition when a guy will try
to
> > enhance the week spot of his car by boosting another area of the car.
Never
> > made sense to me and nor does it to judges or a RTA. Do your front sound
> > stage right and don't waste power to the back. I would rather spend
money on
> > a good set of speakers than two ok ones and place all my money up
> > front.....JMO....
> >
> > BTW anyone want to but a Opti 500? I need to get more power to the
isoberics
> > in the back 500 watts does not cut it anymore
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Andrew Holmes <aholmes@chubb.com>
> > To: Mike <lerb@redrose.net>
> > Cc: <bgsterling@earthlink.net>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 10:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Audio nuts only
> >
> > > Don't you find that without rear speakers it is very difficult to get
a
> > good
> > > volume/bass combination bearing in mind the front aperture is 6*4
only. I
> > use
> > > custom Pioneer 6*4 midrange and custom 1" Pioneer tweeters running at
80hz
> > + and
> > > 40w per channel pure (100wRMS). I found that using just the fronts
would
> > give a
> > > good soundstage but no depth and a lack of bass. If i allow a lower
> > frequency
> > > say 50hz to run through the fronts then i get depth at the expense of
> > power
> > > handling as the 6*4 units struggle to deliver any bass/volume
combination
> > and at
> > > motorway speeds (85mph) the bass disappears as the road/wind/engine
noises
> > drown
> > > it completely.
> > > I appreciate the back speakers provide your back seat passengers with
> > excellent
> > > sound but the purpose of a quality car audio is to balance the sound
> > against the
> > > deficiences of the enviroment (a steel box not being the best acoustic
> > platform)
> > > so ideally you should centre the sound and imaging approxiamately
above
> > the
> > > gearstick/slightly to your front and to do this including a reasonable
> > (not
> > > neceesarily thumping) bass will require the back speakers.
> > > You are quite correct about the hatch creating a "megaphone" effect as
my
> > JBL
> > > 6*9's can if i provoke them quite comfortably match my friends twin
10"
> > > Rockfords in a box in the back of his 325i but i generally like to end
my
> > > journey without my ears bleeding and ringing.
> > > However if you are careful in selecting your components, use decent
> > cabling
> > > (this is very important and can make a huge difference) and are
prepared
> > to
> > > spend time on a careful installation and setup then you can obtain a
very
> > high
> > > quality sound without resorting to subs.
> > > In my humble opinion this can be acheived with the minimum of
> > > Head Unit
> > > 4 channel amp(with built in crossover)
> > > 4 quality speakers
> > > Good quality interconnect and speaker cables
> > >
> > > Lastly if you are running your'e power directly from the battery do
put an
> > in
> > > line fuse on the cable as close to the battery as possible (mine is
> > strapped to
> > > the battery) which will probably save you a lot of cash in the event
of
> > you
> > > making an error on installation or a short within the set up.
> > >
> > > Please note all of the above is based on my personal experience with a
UK
> > spec
> > > vehicle and may or may not be applicable to US or other specs.
> > > I hope some of the above gives some background info which maybe useful
but
> > a
> > > word of warning. Once you start upgrading the in car audio you are
taking
> > the
> > > first step on a path where every upgrade will show up the weakest link
in
> > your
> > > system thus prompting another upgrade and so on and so forth
> > >
> > > Enjoy
> > > Andy
> > > 91 Scala 8v
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well as far as the ba ck speakers get rid of them...a good system
only
> > > > eliminates sounds from behind you anyways...I like to think of it
this
> > > > way...Where do you hear voices from? In front of you right? Well
every
> > > > single voice you hear from the back you wil have to over power from
the
> > > > front. So why have rear? Only reason to ever have rear is if you
have an
> > > > audiance in the back. Actually another reason would be if you were
goig
> > to
> > > > add a center channel but it does not look like you are about to do
that.
> > If
> > > > you don't want thump stay away from a sub altogether. I think a good
set
> > of
> > > > speakers up front will help your sound alot but I am not sure how
you
> > are
> > > > going to avoid thump. Our cars have whats refurred to as a megaphone
> > affect
> > > > with the rear hatch reflecting alot of sound off of the glass and
> > actually
> > > > enhancing the sound pressure forward in the cab which makes any bass
> > > > produced from te rear sound like thump. I have had people ask me
what
> > size
> > > > subs I had me when I only had part of my system installed in my car
(4,5
> > 1/4
> > > > Mb Quarts in the rear deck before I knew better than to put them
there).
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Brad Sterling <bgsterling@earthlink.net>
> > > > To: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 1999 12:21 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: Audio nuts only
> > > >
> > > > > As long as this is a thread for newbie questions...
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm wanting to add a small subwoofer and amp to the stock system
in my
> > 16V
> > > > > for a little for power (unh! Unh! Unh! (in your best Tim Allen
> > voice)).
> > > > >  From my research, it sounds like I need a 4 channel amp with low
> > level
> > > > > inputs (so I can connect the speaker wires in) and low/high
> > crossovers.
> > > > >  The idea is send the front speaker wires into the amp, two
channels
> > out
> > > > > through a low filter to the front speakers and two channels
bridged
> > > > through
> > > > > a high filter to the subwoofer.  The end result should be the
front
> > > > > speakers handle the midrange/treble duties and the subwoofer
handle
> > the
> > > > > bass.  Actually, now that I put this in writing, what do I do with
the
> > > > rear
> > > > > speakers?  If I connect them to the same channels as the front
> > speakers, I
> > > > > lose fader function and if I connect them to the subwoofer
channels,
> > I'll
> > > > > have the wrong filter in place.  Okay, I give up.  How can I put
some
> > more
> > > > > power through the stock system without creating a car that thumps?
> > Should
> > > > > I just get an amplified bass tube and some inline low filters for
the
> > > > > speakers?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Brad
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: William J Erikson [SMTP:williamjosiah@juno.com]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 12:25 PM
> > > > > To: CAPTIANBR@aol.com
> > > > > Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Audio nuts only
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd say your best bet is to get an amp that has a built-in
crossover
> > and
> > > > > is bridgeable. Crossovers filter out certain frequencies. Most
> > > > > bridegeable amps with built-in crossovers and designed to be used
with
> > > > > one subwoofer, like you're planning on doing, so their crossovers
> > filter
> > > > > out high frequencies and send only the low frequencies to the
> > subwoofer.
> > > > > Bridgeable means you can send both channels, mono, to one
subwoofer.
> > > > > Usually it's done by hooking the speaker to R- and L+ or something
> > like
> > > > > that - it varies. Some have a "bridged" switch, like my POS
Legacy.
> > > > > Anyone have any opinions on Legacy, BTW? I bought one brand new
for
> > $80
> > > > > and it worked great while it worked. 300W (150RMS), bridegeable,
> > built-in
> > > > > crossover, hey, sounded great. It died, but I guess that was
because I
> > > > > mounted it to my rear deck and my speakers were mounted there too.
> > > > > Someone told me this will kill an amp. Yes? No? Sounds quite
plausible
> > to
> > > > > me - vibration and all.
> > > > > HTH! (I don't know that much about audio either, really)
> > > > > -Josiah
> > > > > '84 GTI
> > > > > '87 QSW
> > > > > '86 Golf
> > > > > http://bork.hampshire.edu
> > > > > self-employed VW mech
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:29:28 EDT CAPTIANBR@aol.com writes:
> > > > > >I have just inherited a JBL 12" subwoofer and box. But I don't no
> > what
> > > > > >type
> > > > > >of amp to get for it or how to hook it up in the rocco.  I
currently
> > > > > >have six
> > > > > >speakers off of a Clarion CD player.  JBL componants in the front
and
> > > > > >pioneer
> > > > > >5 1/4 in the rear.  But I also have two rca outputs that are not
> > being
> > > > > >used,
> > > > > >Shoud I use these for the subwoofer?  What is a crossover and do
I
> > > > > >need it?
> > > > > >As you can tell I don't have much experience with audio besides
> > > > > >changing
> > > > > >speakers. I have two rca's but only one subwoofer how will this
work.
> > > > > >Thanks
> > > > > >in advance for any help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Brian 86 16v
> > > > > >
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