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Re: Corrado Brakes -- Physics Question: Are they pointless?




On Fri, 05 Feb 1999 02:38:15 -0500 16V JASON <jason@scirocco.org> writes:

>	There are a lot of reasons-- chassis stiffness, for one.  



Buuuuuuuuuut I thought you just said the tires were the limiting factor?



>The "ability to absorb heat and continue to work" is just fade
resistance
>in fancy words, right?  But didn't we agree that the 10.1"s are fade
>resistant enough?  Or maybe I just don't drive as hard as you do!  
>Dunno..



Depends on the condition of the entire brake system but for the most
part, they should be fade resistant. Hell, my 9.4's are fade resistant.
Ive yet to fade them under extreme use. 
I KNOW you don't drive as hard as *I* do. :)



>And Shawn does make some good points, as usual.  However, as usual, I
have
>to be a pain in the ass and point something out.  :)  Shawn said:


Riley, is he molesting you again? Doesn't this violate your probation
Jason?!



>Shawn, that's a great point-- and it's very true.  The Physicists among
us
>know all that bullshit about the static coefficient of friction being
>higher than the dynamic one... which all translates into "You'll get
>shorter stopping distances with the tires on the verge of lockup rather
>than locked up".  And while it's true that a skilled driver will be
better
>able to do this, it's not really relevant to our argument-- unless for
some
>reason the 11"s enable easier modulation... maybe they do... I don't
know!
>Anyone know?  I can't see why they would-- in fact, I would think the
>opposite is true because they're able to create so much more stopping 
>power than a 2300lb car on 195s (or whatever) needs to lock up...



Damn straight the 11's give better modulation. Better everything as a
matter of fact. They work less as hard as the smaller systems do and
perform the same exact task. 


>You're right, you can't normally neglect the fade factor... but if you
>can't get the 10.1"s to fade, then there's no point in going to 11s, if
>that's the only benefit, right?


Considering the vast variations of brake fade, id say going to 11's is
still a good move. call it a safety cushion if it makes you feel better.
Has Riley enabled his 10.1's to fade or partial fade? Ever shot a temp
gun on the rotors after a hard run? Ive had 460 degrees on my rotors
before after a third autox run. Didn't feel like brake fade was evident
but if it was 460 degrees sitting in the grid, what's it doing mid way
thru the run? The ol' castrol GTLMA has what, a 500 degree boiling point?
Granted my car is much lighter (When its not full of cross country crap
JASON.) than yours (Jason im referring to. I don't know how much Riley's
car weighs.) is but as ive said, I drive my car much harder on a
continuous basis to warrant a 10.1 or 11" upgrade yet I still manage to
successfully use my stocker sized9.4's.
Kewl, I Didn't make either ones point. LOL!
you 2 keep discussing while I get another cup of Kona coffee..... 


>I doubt it-- I can't get my Ferodos to fade on my *stock* rotors, and
I've
>done some pretty nutty shit (8 consecutive threshold stops from 60mph, 
>and *almost* no fade)... so I'm pretty confident that with cross-drilled
>Brembos, you would have to trailer a boat to overheat them.


Let me drive your car, I'll show you what brake fade is while you scream
like a girl. (I do it to lots of people, don't be alarmed.)
Try a 110 mph blast off the freeway off ramp to a stop. (don't do this
with other people around. That's uncool.)This will truly show you if you
have brake fade issues. 




>	But can we assume that they give you more control? Not as far 
>as I know...
> - big fat hairy snip!-


So.... is this really about Jason not being able to get the 11' brakes
and Riley can? what's the real story here?
Will Riley get the 11's and sadden Jason?
Will Jason talk Riley out of the upgrade?
Is it me or does everybody here detect some kind of sexual tension
between these two??
<Megaman flame suit -ON->




>	And, once you convert to the 11s, you are probably also creating
a serious
>front/rear bias problem.  Under normal braking, the fronts are doing so
>much more work than the rears, that who knows... stopping distances
might
>even be increased?  



NE-GA-TIVE! 
85% of the braking is done with the front brakes.
The rear brakes do some braking but the majority of the work is done with
the fronts. That might explain why they have left drums on the rear.
Might also explain why the rear discs are so teeny. 




>And you can't mess with the proportioning valve to fix
>that-- the valve only limits the *maximum* amount of pressure delivered
to
>the rears... which means you would have to upgrade the rears, to, say,
10"
>rotors to compensate for the added stopping power up front.  And that's
not
>possible, right?  I believe Danny asked that one...


Jason-Jason Jason. Put down the crack pipe and slowly step away. lemme
see your hands!  :)
Well, in stock form, no, you are right you cant adjust the bias. BUT, you
can get adjustable prop valves and custom adjust the bias. Even still,
you don't need to change the prop valve, it will work fine.



>So, phew, in one post, I covered everyone's responses thus far 
>to this thread!
>	Thanks for all your responses guys!
>
>			Jason


Glad to help in anyway I possibly can. How can I say no to my former cell
mate? C'mon!
:)


              Shawn Meze
86' Jetta GLi           82' Scirocco GTi
The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and
best looking Scirocco in all of San Diego!
http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm

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