Re: Seeking Advice....and lots of it!

[brett@kodak.com (Brett VanSprewenburg)]

> Dear List,
> 
> After some months lurking on the list, I have to say it is an excellent
> forum!

Why thank you.  Please lay it on nice & thick. :-)

> 
> I thought it was time to crawl out of the woodwork and seek your advice on
> the renovation of my completely stock European, Silver '82 1600 8V GTI 4
> speed.

So, are you in the US now, or Europe?  That will guide our recomendations
to some extent.

> 
> To give you all some background, I bought it some 6 years ago with 110K miles
> on the ticker for $800 (what a buy!). After getting it back on the road I put
> another 20K on the clock with no problems whatsoever, bar the usual
> maintenance to keep her on the road.`

Been there!  Fixed that!

> 
> Since then I have moved abroad to earn some money and the car was stored in
> my garage. It is now time to get her back on the road and, with the benefit
> of the Scirroco restoration fund that I've been squirreling away since
> moving, it should be possible to have it pretty much rebuilt to a high
> standard! Thing is I want to "drive" the car so over the top changes which
> would make the car unreliable on a day to day basis are out.

I see that you've gotten a couple of good replies already, I'll do my best
to add to the helpful info.

> 
> My initial thoughts are "Where do I start?" There is no hurry to get the car
> back on the road so it will be possible to do the work over some months if
> necessary. Its determining where to begin that is my problem!

A good place to start is the beginning. :-)   Try and define exactly how
and where you expect to use the car. Ie. do you expect to be racing?  What
conditions are the roads in where you plan to drive?  How do you like
to drive on the street? (do you like to wind it out all the time?)

> 
> I would like to have the car perform to a really fast road specification so
> power, handling and braking are, I believe, the initial priorities. Cosmetics
> can come along later (and believe me there is a lot of work required in this
> area!).

These are areas that you could definitely improve.  I'll make some suggestions.

> 
> As I'm not (and could not) do the work on the engine myself, I thought that
> it would be worthwhile starting there!

Well, you could probably do some work...

> 
> So, should I ditch the 8V and look to put in a 16V? 

It depends.  I assume that you have a 1.6 injected motor for starters. For
simplicity sake, you should stick with an 8v motor.  This allows you to
use the maximal amount of plumbing that's already in the car.  1.8l motors
can be had, with heads, for around $400.  Expect to pay almost twice that
for a 2.0l 8v motor.  The 1.8l motor has a lot of room for improvement in
the cylinder head (valve size, cam profiles) as well as outside of it like
throttle bodies, exhaust systems and fuel metering.  The bottom end can
also be enlarged to a safe 1.9l, but that'll cost ya.  Don't forget that
this engine responds well to porting and polishing of intake and exhaust
areas.   Ask more specific questions concerning any of these upgrades and
we'll do our best.  If you wanted to spend mucho-cash for balls-to-the-wall
motor, then I'd suggest a 2.0 16v.  The mods to this style engine cost
more for a smaller percentage gain (except for boring/stroking where I 
believe percentage gains are fairly equal between 8v & 16v), but the end
result is a more powerful motor.  Again, it depends.  Ask more specific
questions...

As far as money goes, I think that you could spend, oh, off the top of
my head, about $2,300 and have yourself a nice rebuilt and built-up 
150+HP 1.8l 8v engine with you doing some of the work.  

> What mods should I look
> to carry out on an engine to give me maximum reliable power? 

There are several reputable tuning companies that tout the realiability
of their engines, notably Techtonics and Velocity come to mind.

> What are the implications of changing the engine? 

You'll work very hard, spend a lot of money and have a unique and powerful
vehicle that you'll like quite a bit.  Oh, and you'll get the chicks.  In
truckloads.  (No warrenty expressed or implied)

> Do I need new wiring, and other difficult to obtain parts? 

For a conversion to and maximum power from a 16v, yes probably.  For a
good hardworking 8v, probably not.  What kind of ignition system does
your car have today?  There are some benefits to running a knock-sensor
style ignition (ie. ability to run high-compression and avoid ping/knock)
 
> I am shying away from additions like turbochargers and the like, am I correct
> or is it worth considering? 

If you've got deep pockets (and I'm talking 5-6k above and beyond, a nice
new reliable turbo system can be under your hood. Based on the power to weight
ratio, you'd have a real muscle car challenger (and winner in many many
situations)

> What about the exhaust and outlet?

Yes. :-)  Port the exhuast outlets.  Run a 4-2-1 style manifold with cat
and sport exhaust du-jour (Techtonics/Eurosport/Autotech, they're all decent)
if your in the states, and a header for maximum HP if your in Europe or
an area that doesn't smog check.


Now, as far as handling.  You've probably got stock sway bars, but you'd
benefit from upgrading them.  Go with the biggest rear bar you can afford,
that'll probably be a 28mm bar, but I think H&H makes a bigger one. Add
the upper front stress bar (Neuspeed makes a decent one, Flotul used (still?)
to make a better one).  The upper rear bar makes some difference, but is
probably a final tweek.  Oh, *do* add the lower subframe bar (Techtonics
makes a copy of the 16v Scirocco one, Autotech makes a slightly easier to
fit 'Z' bar)  This helps strenghen the front chassis quite a bit.  Upgrade
your wheels and rims.  This is probably the biggest bang for buck improvement
that you can make to your handling/suspension.  Expect to pay around $1,000
for new set of 15x7 rims with 195/50-15 Z rated tires.  I wouldn't suggest
going with any other size, unless you're autocrossing.  The chances of
rubbing are far to great compared to the benefits.  I read once that
a 7 inch rim stretches a 195/50 tire to about a 205/45 anyway...
Shocks and springs.  Replace yours.  For non-adjustable shocks go with
the Bilsteins, I hear wonderful things about them.  For adjustables, gotta
go with the Konis.  Tokico makes an ajustable, but they may still not have
their act together.  For springs, Neuspeed will sell you a good set.  They're
made by H&R in Germany, and they seem to know what they're doing.  I've
heard stories that Eibachs may sag...anyone know about Suspension Tech.?


Brakes.  A rear disc conversion is probably not worth it, unless you
1. race sometimes (street or otherwise) or 2. want to look cool. :-)
Some people found the disc/drum cars stopped quicker, but I find the
the disc/disc car easier to modulate.  (I own and have owned several
of each so I feel qualified).  Ferodo pads are the way to go, they are
a little dusty but performance for street and track is way up there. For
better pedal feel, and considering how old your car is, switch to 
braided steel lines instead of the old rubber lines. Oh, run Castrol
GT-LMA fluid also, over the counter availability and good performance.


> 
> I appreciate that these are BIG questions and they probably require fairly
> detailed responses but what I'm looking to do is find the consensus and apply
> it to give me the "LISTS" version of a modified Scirroco!

Uh, yeah.   I'm tired...

> 
> Any help and assistance you could proffer will be gratefully appreciated.

Oh, and that'll be $5. :-)

> 
> Thanks in advance.

No problem.

> 
> Ian Brennan


Good luck and welcome to the non-lurking list.  
Just don't call anyone an idiot, ok? :-)

==Brett
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