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Mk1 racer on eBay
David,
I disagree that this package isn't very streetable.
Over 100ft-lb torque at 3000 RPM! In a light package that's pretty
streetable and driveability wasn't bad!
But, no doubt, the power was there and getting the maximum out of it
required a close ratio box.
Still, you could toodle around all day under 3000 and not feel slow.
Makes me want to build up my 2.0L 16V :'(
Dan
From: "David Utley" <fahrvergnugen@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Mk1 racer on eBay
> Thanks Dan, that gives me what I needed... Well out of my reach, but as
> discussed this is not very streetable...
>
> David
>
> Dan Bubb wrote:
>> I just got some data from a friend of mine.
>> 2.0L 8V, stock ABA short block, stock Eurospec cylinder head (the stock
>> Eurospec is P & P'd) milled slightly for 11:1 CR. ITB's, TT header,
>> bigassed (greater than 306deg) cam. Megasquirt engine control
>> Results: 159 wHp @ 6900 RPM, 136 wTorque @5500.
>> That translates close enough to 185 crank Hp. Pretty impressive
>> considering that 1) the Eurospec head, although ported, only flows 160cfm
>> so is hardly the last word on Max power. and 2) this is a collection of
>> parts that aren't necessarily optimized to all play together. As you can
>> see you need to turn some RPM to make this sort of power with a 2.0L and
>> you also need a close ratio tranny to take advantage of the fact the max
>> Torque and Max Hp peaks are only 1400 RPM apart.
>> Dan
>>
>> From: <nocones77-vw@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: Mk1 racer on eBay
>>
>>
>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> Those Bertils engines are indeed quite capable of 200hp. Kevin Wenzel's
>>> old EP project had a Bertils Super Vee spec engine that was "detuned"
>>> with a cam that gave him more low-end torque for autocrossing. I don't
>>> remember the numbers exactly, but it still came in with enough whp to be
>>> a very belivable 180+ at the crank. I should ask if Ben Rogowski got
>>> dynos with his ex-GT4 Rabbit, which is similar to this and also has a
>>> Bertils engine.
>>>
>>> Don't forget: Bertils (and a few others like Brabham) built those 1.6L
>>> engines for Formula Super Vee way back in the day. We're talking about
>>> "real" open-wheel race cars that were the minor-leagues for CART at the
>>> time, and has more-or-less evolved into what is now the Star Mazda
>>> Series...
>>>
>>> Neal
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Dan Bubb <jdbubb@verizon.net>
>>> To: LEF <rocco16@sbcglobal.net>; David Utley <fahrvergnugen@cox.net>;
>>> Nate Mellom <doubt@inwave.com>
>>> Cc: Scirocco list <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2006 7:53:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Mk1 racer on eBay
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm quite sure that a very reputable race engine builder like
>>> Bertils is just pulling numbers out of his ass just like the jackoff 18
>>> year old kid down the street who ported his head with a flap wheel.
>>> I'm sure the HP he quoted is for the engine as supplied to him from
>>> Bertils. Racing engines obviously loose power as they wear. So, you'd
>>> have to make an estimate of engine condition based on his log book
>>> (assuming he has one) showing racing miles and maintenance. Bertils
>>> probably also supplies information about the service life of the engine
>>> before it'll need a rebuild and installation requirements (exhaust
>>> system, cooling system, lubrication system and induction) to actually
>>> make the power they claim.
>>> I'd think anybody serious about buying a race car would look into those
>>> sorts of things and not assume the engine was producing the same power
>>> as when it was originally installed.
>>> It'd be kind of stupid to not know any of those things, not realize the
>>> engine had crappy maintenance, not realize the service life is 2000
>>> racing miles and the engine has been used for 5 years and has 5000
>>> racing miles, not talk to Bertils about when the engine was sold and how
>>> long they expected it to last, THEN dyno it and bitch to the seller.
>>> Racing engines hardly last for the life of the car like a street engine.
>>> Christ! 2 years ago a Formula 1 engine was not expected to last more
>>> than 400 kilometers before a complete rebuild!
>>> Sorry for the rant. Not everybody is trying to put one over on the
>>> world, and if you find one that is, a little knowledge goes a long way
>>> towards avoiding them.
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> From: "LEF" <rocco16@sbcglobal.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:58 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Mk1 racer on eBay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I have always wondered what they do to these motors to make them have
>>>>> that much horsepower...
>>>>>
>>>> Well, for one, they can use any hp number they want....who is going to
>>>> take the time/expense to verify it by having the motor dyno'd? And if
>>>> someone did dyno the engine (not a chassis dyno) and the numbers came
>>>> up short....so what? The PO could say "My numbers were on a fresh
>>>> motor, this has xx racing hours on it....you must have changed
>>>> something....yadda, yadda, yadda" Then, too, what would the new owner
>>>> do? Say "take everything back, I don't want it because it's down 35hp
>>>> from what you said"? Probably not.
>>>>
>>>> No, race hp numbers are as reliable on a race car (especially one that
>>>> is on the auction block) are they are on someone's street car that just
>>>> came back from Roscoe's Dyno-Tune. That is to say, not very.
>>>> They make for great debates, though.
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>> sandiego16v
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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