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Mk1 racer on eBay
Thanks Dan, that gives me what I needed... Well out of my reach, but
as discussed this is not very streetable...
David
Dan Bubb wrote:
> I just got some data from a friend of mine.
> 2.0L 8V, stock ABA short block, stock Eurospec cylinder head (the stock Eurospec is P & P'd) milled slightly for 11:1 CR. ITB's, TT header, bigassed (greater than 306deg) cam. Megasquirt engine control
> Results: 159 wHp @ 6900 RPM, 136 wTorque @5500.
> That translates close enough to 185 crank Hp. Pretty impressive considering that 1) the Eurospec head, although ported, only flows 160cfm so is hardly the last word on Max power. and 2) this is a collection of parts that aren't necessarily optimized to all play together.
> As you can see you need to turn some RPM to make this sort of power with a 2.0L and you also need a close ratio tranny to take advantage of the fact the max Torque and Max Hp peaks are only 1400 RPM apart.
> Dan
>
> From: <nocones77-vw@yahoo.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Mk1 racer on eBay
>
>
>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> Those Bertils engines are indeed quite capable of 200hp. Kevin Wenzel's old EP project had a Bertils Super Vee spec engine that was "detuned" with a cam that gave him more low-end torque for autocrossing. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but it still came in with enough whp to be a very belivable 180+ at the crank. I should ask if Ben Rogowski got dynos with his ex-GT4 Rabbit, which is similar to this and also has a Bertils engine.
>>
>> Don't forget: Bertils (and a few others like Brabham) built those 1.6L engines for Formula Super Vee way back in the day. We're talking about "real" open-wheel race cars that were the minor-leagues for CART at the time, and has more-or-less evolved into what is now the Star Mazda Series...
>>
>> Neal
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Dan Bubb <jdbubb@verizon.net>
>> To: LEF <rocco16@sbcglobal.net>; David Utley <fahrvergnugen@cox.net>; Nate Mellom <doubt@inwave.com>
>> Cc: Scirocco list <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 3, 2006 7:53:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: Mk1 racer on eBay
>>
>> Yes, I'm quite sure that a very reputable race engine builder like Bertils is just pulling numbers out of his ass just like the jackoff 18 year old kid down the street who ported his head with a flap wheel.
>> I'm sure the HP he quoted is for the engine as supplied to him from Bertils. Racing engines obviously loose power as they wear. So, you'd have to make an estimate of engine condition based on his log book (assuming he has one) showing racing miles and maintenance. Bertils probably also supplies information about the service life of the engine before it'll need a rebuild and installation requirements (exhaust system, cooling system, lubrication system and induction) to actually make the power they claim.
>> I'd think anybody serious about buying a race car would look into those sorts of things and not assume the engine was producing the same power as when it was originally installed.
>> It'd be kind of stupid to not know any of those things, not realize the engine had crappy maintenance, not realize the service life is 2000 racing miles and the engine has been used for 5 years and has 5000 racing miles, not talk to Bertils about when the engine was sold and how long they expected it to last, THEN dyno it and bitch to the seller.
>> Racing engines hardly last for the life of the car like a street engine. Christ! 2 years ago a Formula 1 engine was not expected to last more than 400 kilometers before a complete rebuild!
>> Sorry for the rant. Not everybody is trying to put one over on the world, and if you find one that is, a little knowledge goes a long way towards avoiding them.
>> Dan
>>
>> From: "LEF" <rocco16@sbcglobal.net>
>> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: Mk1 racer on eBay
>>
>>
>>
>>>> I have always wondered what they do to these motors to make them have that
>>>> much horsepower...
>>>>
>>> Well, for one, they can use any hp number they want....who is going to take
>>> the time/expense to verify it by having the motor dyno'd? And if someone
>>> did dyno the engine (not a chassis dyno) and the numbers came up short....so
>>> what? The PO could say "My numbers were on a fresh motor, this has xx
>>> racing hours on it....you must have changed something....yadda, yadda,
>>> yadda" Then, too, what would the new owner do? Say "take everything back,
>>> I don't want it because it's down 35hp from what you said"? Probably not.
>>>
>>> No, race hp numbers are as reliable on a race car (especially one that is
>>> on the auction block) are they are on someone's street car that just came
>>> back from Roscoe's Dyno-Tune. That is to say, not very.
>>> They make for great debates, though.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>> sandiego16v
>>>
>>>
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