50mm intake, was Re: ebay link

[sciroccojunky at gmail.com (Lance LaPrarie)]

I got two cams from them. I have had an idle problem since I got the car. No
one has seemed to figure out what the deal was. Everything seemed to check
out everytime they looked at it. They mentioned that since my number two and
three cylinders on my old 1.8 were almost toast that may have caused my
power loss and crappy idle. When I got the new motor I had them swap it to
Motronic from an 91 Jetta. They spliced it in to my current wiring. Looks
sweet and runs like a top. I've got a chip to pickup hopefully today. They
mentioned that it would be a good addition and gain much more power.

I'll let you know what I find out on the motor specs and my seat dyno
numbers for the chip.

Thanks!!


On 7/10/06, Don Walter <dswalterwi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  I haven't really noticed a power difference like that.  The slapping
> usually comes later after they wear in some so I hear.  Mine seems to have
> as much power from the start as after 20 to 30 minutes.  As far as the
> ruffness when first starting I'm running a Electromotive TEC 2 Engine
> management and right now it takes a few minutes to get it to settle down but
> I make need to fiddle with the TEC 2 settings.  The Centerforce clutch feels
> just like a stock clutch, maybe a bit lighter, but with much more clamping
> force.  It is disigned that way. I would never run a race clutch on a street
> machine.  The SACHs may last for a bit but the extra horsepower will
> eventially take its toll.  I burned up two of them before I switched to
> Centerforce.
>
> Did you get 2 Cams or 1 from them.  If two then they are the Sport 16V set
> other wise you must have gotten just a euro type grind which only replaces
> the Intake cam.  Are you running the stock CIS-E?
>
>
>  On 7/10/06, Lance LaPrarie <sciroccojunky@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Hey Don,
> >
> > Yeah, I don't notice any piston slap at all. it is kind of lopey for a
> > while though. Seems like it runs like a V8 for the first couple minutes.
> > After it warms up it smooths out a little. I do notice that it takes about
> > 15 minutes before the power actually shows up. It takes about 5 minutes for
> > the temperture needle to center out. Though it doesn't seem to be warmed up
> > that quick. I can really notice a difference between 5 minutes and 20
> > minutes of driving. I wonder if that is the pistons not being heated enough.
> > Don't know if you've noticed that on your car. I don't really mind the wait
> > though. Want to make sure that it is totally warmed up before jumping on it.
> > On the leak, I did notice a small leak under the timing belt cover. They
> > fixed that lickety split and haven't had it since. I think mine are the
> > Autotech Sport cams.
> >
> > What is driving your clutch like? I had a buddy that did a VR6 with a
> > Vortec supercharger on his mark 3 gti. He had a race clutch that was either
> > engaged or not. Not slipping or anything. I told the shop that did my car
> > that it would be driven daily and didn't want to suffer through a race
> > clutch. Is your's like that? My current clutch hasn't had any slipping
> > issues at all. Seems to work really well.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> >
> >  On 7/10/06, Don Walter <dswalterwi@gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > >  Yes it is very simliar to mine although my shop reccommended against
> > > the knifing of the crank and said the money spent would be better used else
> > > where.  I have WiseCo (Owner of JE pistons) forged pistons custom designed
> > > and they are the only ones of their kind out there right now because they
> > > did not have an off the shelf design yet, they should by now though.  I went
> > > with them because they have the wrist pin offset like the stock pistons do
> > > to reduce the "Slapping" amoung other things.  They were less than the JE
> > > ones.  I have the Autotech 16V Sport cams.  I curious to see if you have cam
> > > seal leaks like I did from the Autotech cams.  ( I went round and round with
> > > them and ended up buying another intake one - long story).  I have a
> > > lightened flywheel and I really like the Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch.
> > > I have one on each of our Scirocco's and it has taken everything I can throw
> > > at it and I am pushing at least 160HP through it.
> > >
> > >
> > >  On 7/10/06, Lance LaPrarie <sciroccojunky@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  Hey Don,
> > > >
> > > > I'm waiting on a build sheet for my motor. All I have is the break
> > > > down of parts from my bill. Not sure of all the actual measurements that
> > > > they did. NW Connecting Rod did all the block work and did a full stage
> > > > three on the head. I got Techtonics valve springs, JE pistons, Autotech
> > > > cams, all balanced.  The crank was balanced, polished and knife edged.
> > > > Lightened flywheel and a sport clutch. It says Sachs on the bill. Got to get
> > > > more info on that. My guy mentioned I'll need a heavier duty clutch to
> > > > compensate for the added power. Not sure if a stock 16v Sachs clutch can
> > > > handle that. Gots to check on that. I asked the shop to do all APR fasteners
> > > > and they said that stock stuff is built really well and not to spend the
> > > > money. That's pretty cool since I'm sure they'd take my money if they
> > > > thought they would help. That is one thing I really like about Fine Tuning
> > > > is that you ask them stuff and they shoot you straight. They will tell you
> > > > what is good and what will work. If you want to put something cheesy on or
> > > > something overkill they'll tell you what's up. Most shops will just say yes
> > > > sir and go to town, whether you actually need it or not. So, trust is a huge
> > > > factor with me. The motor pulls really stong and runs great. I'm happy with
> > > > the work.
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of the motor was to give me as much power but with the
> > > > ability to pass emissions without having to swap out stuff. I almost bought
> > > > a 16v off of a guy about 5 years ago and the guy had some Schrick cams in it
> > > > that were really aggressive. The problem with that was to to transfer title
> > > > in Washington you have to pass emissions. Kind of sucked since I would have
> > > > to scare of some stock cams and swap them out. The car was awesome. Started
> > > > out 8v but did a Kamei body kit, awesome suspension, wheels etc.... I didn't
> > > > feel like spending the money at the time. Not like I'm going to be selling
> > > > my rocco anytime to anyone but don't want to have to go through the hassle
> > > > for tabs. I'm pretty handy with a wrench but don't want to switch out cams
> > > > every two years. So with that said I chose as agressive a cam you can get
> > > > without having to sacrifice emissions. Other than that my motor is basically
> > > > all race.
> > > >
> > > > I'll let you know what all the perticulars are hopefully today. My
> > > > chip comes in today or tomorrow and I'll get the info then.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  On 7/7/06, Don Walter <dswalterwi@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >  Lance,
> > > > > Your setup sounds similar to mine.  What Autotech cams do you
> > > > > have?  Which forged pistons and what size are they?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  On 7/7/06, Lance LaPrarie <sciroccojunky@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Dan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just got through the break in period last Sunday. My guy that
> > > > > > built the
> > > > > > motor told me to keep the car under 3500RPM for the duration of
> > > > > > the 1500
> > > > > > mile break in. So I didn't have the ability to really gauge the
> > > > > > difference
> > > > > > from my stock 1.8 with cams and CIS. However I did notice that
> > > > > > going up
> > > > > > steep hills and acceleration were much better to the 3500 shop
> > > > > > imposed
> > > > > > limit. Sunday I started wrapping it out to see where the power
> > > > > > comes on.
> > > > > > With my E36 M3 the power comes on like a sledgehammer around
> > > > > > 4000RPM. The
> > > > > > same can be said of any VR6 car but more like a mallet
> > > > > > relatively speaking.
> > > > > > On my 16v 2.2ltr it comes on very linear. There isn't a big rush
> > > > > > of pull at
> > > > > > any real RPM like my other car. I was kind of worried that my
> > > > > > motor wasn't
> > > > > > set up properly. One thing though is with the forged pistons it
> > > > > > seems to
> > > > > > take about 15-20 minutes of driving time for them to heat up.
> > > > > > Driving it
> > > > > > cold seems kind of lopey with the AutoTech cams. Not too much
> > > > > > power
> > > > > > difference. It is better than my older motor but isn't as
> > > > > > dramatic under
> > > > > > lower RPM. When it is totally warmed up like half way through my
> > > > > > drive in to
> > > > > > work which is about 30 miles. Power is really evident when I'm
> > > > > > around 5k-6k.
> > > > > > This is with basically the same setup as the guy on Ebay selling
> > > > > > his 2.2ltr.
> > > > > > I moved to Motronic for idle stability. Was going to go the
> > > > > > megasquirt route
> > > > > > but didn't have the extra dough for all the doo dads required
> > > > > > for the swap.
> > > > > > The shop that did my motor charged me $150 total for the
> > > > > > Motronic swap. That
> > > > > > is a phat deal for sure. Monday I'm getting the TechTonics chip
> > > > > > made for my
> > > > > > setup. That should add quite a bit for the $100 it cost. Much
> > > > > > better than
> > > > > > $500+ for an intake.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I dig the motor and seems to run extra smooth. The idle is kind
> > > > > > of rough but
> > > > > > my guy mentioned that it is the cams that make the idle that
> > > > > > lopey. Before
> > > > > > WaterWagens I'm getting my ceramic coated SuperSprint header
> > > > > > installed to
> > > > > > replace my aging header. Funny how these things crack so often.
> > > > > > They used
> > > > > > half a reel of wire to repair the latest round of cracks. It
> > > > > > really sucks
> > > > > > bad that SuperSprint has discontinued all Scirocco related
> > > > > > products and
> > > > > > replacement parts. Their gear is top notch in my book.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 7/7/06, Dan Bubb <jdbubb@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't have any hard data either, but some peripheral data
> > > > > > seems to
> > > > > > > indicate the 50mm ought to work well on a 2.0 or 2.2L.
> > > > > > > Of course, the 50mm originally came on the European 1.8L.
> > > > > > That, the
> > > > > > > addition of a cat and the Euro intake cam, which is still
> > > > > > nothing to write
> > > > > > > home about, raised power from 123@5800 to 139@6100. The
> > > > > > maximum torque
> > > > > > > speed went from 4250 to 4800 although the max torque value
> > > > > > didn't change
> > > > > > > much (conflicting numbers from my research). And, of course,
> > > > > > the breadth of
> > > > > > > the torque curve is probably very much in favor of the US
> > > > > > engine.
> > > > > > > Anyway, the bigger intake manifold seems to be integral to the
> > > > > > higher
> > > > > > > power of the Euro 1.8L.
> > > > > > > I'd can't think of any reason why that wouldn't translate to a
> > > > > > bigger
> > > > > > > engine that will have an even higher airflow capability.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My experience with 16V engines isn't extensive, but I do know
> > > > > > that the
> > > > > > > difference in midrange power going from a 1.8L to a 2.0L, with
> > > > > > no other
> > > > > > > changes, is really dramatic. I'd expect the 2.2L would be
> > > > > > another big step
> > > > > > > up. So, much in fact that I doubt you'd miss the comparative
> > > > > > lack of
> > > > > > > midrange of the 50mm.
> > > > > > > Typically, increasing an engine's displacement without other
> > > > > > changes will
> > > > > > > increase torque and low end power, but will also reduce the
> > > > > > peak power
> > > > > > > speed. So you end up with a comparative torque monster that
> > > > > > needs to be
> > > > > > > shifted at a lower maximum RPM. Making changes to bolster the
> > > > > > top end would
> > > > > > > seem appropriate to me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Check out the pictures here:
> > > > > > > http://www.scirocco16v.com/gallery/16v_abfengines_index1.htm
> > > > > > > The 2.0L European ABF looks to have a hell of a big intake
> > > > > > manifold.
> > > > > > > Well, at least it looks that way to me!
> > > > > > > Anyway, nothing definitive, just a bunch of sort of related
> > > > > > facts and my
> > > > > > > opinion.
> > > > > > > Dan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Lance LaPrarie" < sciroccojunky@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > To: "Dan Bubb" <dan.bubb@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > Cc: "alex porter" < alexporter_14@hotmail.com>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:51 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: ebay link
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey Dan,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't have any hard data to back that statement up. I did
> > > > > > a bunch of
> > > > > > > > research when deciding to get the best out of my buck on my
> > > > > > current
> > > > > > > motor.
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > was going to buy a 50mm intake and read somewhere that it
> > > > > > really doesn't
> > > > > > > > do anything for you on larger motors. I also asked the shop
> > > > > > that built
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > motor and they said it wouldn't do anything benefitial for
> > > > > > me and not to
> > > > > > > > spend the money. From what I gathered it's like the 1.8ltrhead on a
> > > > > > > > 2.0ltrblock. It helps if you don't port it out. Once you
> > > > > > port it out
> > > > > > > > you lose the
> > > > > > > > advantage over the 2ltr head ported. Porting a 1.8 and a 2.0head there
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > really no difference between them. So if you know something
> > > > > > that I
> > > > > > > don't,
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > stand corrected. Also, top end power really doesn't matter
> > > > > > to me since
> > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > not going to be racing my car. I'd rather have the power in
> > > > > > a usable
> > > > > > > spot
> > > > > > > > which is the midrange. My personal preference though.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 7/6/06, Dan Bubb <dan.bubb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Lance,
> > > > > > > >>> Have any data to back up this statement?
> > > > > > > >>> I think the common knowledge is that the 50mm intake
> > > > > > boosts top end
> > > > > > > >>> but hurts the midrange some, at least on the 1.8L.
> > > > > > > >>> I'd think with the additional airflow of the 2.0 or 2.2Lengines it'd
> > > > > > > >>> be a benefit everywhere.
> > > > > > > >>> Dan
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> On 7/5/06, Lance LaPrarie < sciroccojunky@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> > I opted out on the
> > > > > > > >>> > 50mm intake since it actually robs you of power on 2.016v's or
> > > > > > > larger.
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>> > Check it out.
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >> Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > > > > > >> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > > >> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > > > > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > > > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > > > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Don Walter - Waukesha, WI
> > > > > 1986 8V Black Scirocco (Daily Driver)
> > > > > 1984 8V Audi 4000s (RIP 2/14/2006)
> > > > > 1986 2.0L 16V TEC 2 Black Scirocco (see progress at
> > > > > http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/708939)
> > > > > 1986 2L 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (Ben's Car)
> > > > > 1988 1.8 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (sold on 3/29/04)
> > > > > 1984 1.8 8V Pewter Scirocco (sold years ago)
> > > > > 1971 Karman Ghia (sold)
> > > > > 1969 Karman Ghia (sold)
> > > > > 1969 Beetle (sold)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Don Walter - Waukesha, WI
> > > 1986 8V Black Scirocco (Daily Driver)
> > > 1984 8V Audi 4000s (RIP 2/14/2006)
> > > 1986 2.0L 16V TEC 2 Black Scirocco (see progress at http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/708939
> > > )
> > > 1986 2L 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (Ben's Car)
> > > 1988 1.8 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (sold on 3/29/04)
> > > 1984 1.8 8V Pewter Scirocco (sold years ago)
> > > 1971 Karman Ghia (sold)
> > > 1969 Karman Ghia (sold)
> > > 1969 Beetle (sold)
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Don Walter - Waukesha, WI
> 1986 8V Black Scirocco (Daily Driver)
> 1984 8V Audi 4000s (RIP 2/14/2006)
> 1986 2.0L 16V TEC 2 Black Scirocco (see progress at
> http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/708939)
> 1986 2L 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (Ben's Car)
> 1988 1.8 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (sold on 3/29/04)
> 1984 1.8 8V Pewter Scirocco (sold years ago)
> 1971 Karman Ghia (sold)
> 1969 Karman Ghia (sold)
> 1969 Beetle (sold)
>