Can this be said on the list?

[dan.bubb at gmail.com (Dan Bubb)]

I always enjoy people that say "that's just your opinion" when they
can provide no objective data themselves considering that lack of
objective data is pretty much the definition of "opinion".
There's no denying that disc brakes are better than drums. More linear
in their response to pedal pressure and more fade resistant and lots
easier to change pads and perhaps even cheaper for the OEM, all things
considered.

But, here's a few facts:

1. Bearing in mind we're not talking disc vs. drum in general, we're
talking disc vs drum on the rear of a Scirocco in particular.
The rear brakes on a Scirocco, in an emergency stop, i.e 0.9 g's or
better, provide less than 20% of the braking force. They absorb only
20% of the heat and are strong enough to lock the rear tires. Now just
how much improvement do we need in this situation? How much stronger
can the rear brakes be before they always lock up before the fronts?
If it's a track car, I'd say go for it if only for the fade
resistance. Otherwise your money isn't buying you much of anything.

2. Like it or not, the e-brake mechanism on the A1 caliper is a
problem. YOU may not have had the problem. Doesn't mean it doesn't
exist. I've heard of plenty of examples before I even bought a 16V and
acquired my very own proof. If you want to deny it and say it's my
opinion feel free! God will I laugh my ass off when your calipers jam
and you bitch about the $170 cost of a new one!

You keep saying they're a nice upgrade to have. Undoubtedly true. But
they aren't free. As a matter of fact they're pretty damn expensive
for the improvement you get.

My point is not whether discs are better than drums.
My point is that in this application the improvement is so marginal
that it's not worth the expense.
My OPINION is that the pedal feel and brake reponse of the 16V front,
drum rear is better than 16V discs all around. Perhaps a just haven't
driven a 16V setup that was like new.
Dan


On 9/7/05, Mtl-Marc <marc_scirocco@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Answers within.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Marc
> '83 Scirocco
> '97 A4 Q
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De: Dan Bubb [mailto:dan.bubb@gmail.com]
> > Envoy?: 6 septembre 2005 12:01
> > ?: Mtl-Marc
> > Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > Objet: Re: Can this be said on the list?
> >
> > Well, since my input is just an opinion, perhaps just to validate you
> > input as more than an opinion you can quantify the braking
> > improvement??
> 
> This is a well known fact in the automible world. I suggest you do your own
> research if you need numbers.
> 
> > I didn't say the swap was difficult, it's childs play in my
> > experience, but it's $400 if you buy new calipers and rotors and if
> > you don't buy new calipers it won't be long until you have to ;^)
> 
> Your opinion. My rear calipers are 10+ years old, and they are fine. Others
> may experience earlier failure. I'd say it all depends.
> 
> Modern cars have rear disks. If you'd rather have drum brakes, then by all
> means, have drum brakes. To each their own. Still rear disk brakes are a
> nice upgrade to have.
> 
> > So, please, I'm dying ot hear about your improvement in stopping distance.
> > Dan
> > Who's apparently now an old fart that drives like a pussy and wouldn't
> > know good brakes from bad.
> >
> > On 9/6/05, Mtl-Marc <marc_scirocco@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > That is your opinion, but I swapped to rear disks on my Scirocco without
> > any
> > > major (or minor) problem.
> > >
> > > It is a nice upgrade, well worth it, and anybody who thinks about it
> > ought
> > > to do it. This upgrade is more about function than form.
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > > '83 Scirocco
> > > '97 A4 Q