Semi O/T: Got a pickup with 2.0 16V, do I need Motronic?

[mr.utility at highstream.net (David Utley)]

Comments within...

Quoting Allyn <amalventano@sc.rr.com>:

> > > I forgot to mention, I will also have Evans coolant,
> > > which should help
> > > things...
> >
> > Can't help ya there...   I think da original Cheapass Ron
> > (TM) was going to run something like that - talk to him.
> 
> you know, i was doing some reading up on that evans coolant stuff:
> http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm#ptbl1
> 
> then i noticed the glaring issue (which i feared): its heat capacity sucks
> ass. its like 0.7, which is less than 50/50 water/antifreeze mix (0.8).
> heck, i end up keeping the rieger running on like 20/80 mix (0.9) just to
> keep temps reasonable. from my own observations/tests the rieger oil temp
> runs at 120c constant with a 50/50 mix (compare with 95c constant pure
> water). i couldnt imagine running it with this evans stuff. there may not be
> any local boiling in the head, but the overall engine temp would be so high
> that it would be knocking all over the place.
> 
  A couple of points.  One, higher heat is not always a bad thing (although I 
will admit it is contra to popular opinion).  I will hit on that more in a 
minute.  But to the char, I think I see where you are seeing those specifics,  
but I will repeat exactly what I read to make sure we are all on the same 
page...  Specific heat, 50/50 mix, .82 btu/lb/degrees F, while Evans plus (to 
my knowledge, they do not make the plain NPG any longer), is at .66 
btu/lb/degrees F.  Is this where you are getting those figures?  If so, look 
at the top of the charts where it describes 50/50, the pressure is at 1 
atmostphere, plus a 15lb cap.  Look at NPG, it is at 1 atmostphere, and no 
pressure on the cap...  If the low specific heat value bothers you, you can 
run a 7 lb cap as I do.  I actually did that because you can smell it all the 
time, like Belgian waffles, sickly sweet smell.  Now, I have no idea what 
specific heat mine exhibits, and I do know that the heat rises pretty steadily 
if I sit a -long- period of time idling (20 mins)....  Now, to test this 
stuff, I romped on it when the temps were high.  I could not get it to ping.  
The temp guage will read close to the red if you are sitting, but it will not 
cause any internal damage, or pinging.  Now, to the higher temps.  Localized 
boiling is virtually eliminated, and those hot spots are actually what causes 
pre-ignition (carbon deposits are hotter than the surrounding metal)  Raised 
temperatures within the chamber increases efficiency of the burn...

> it may be nice that this stuff basically wont boil in an engine, but i
> believe that is outweighed by the high heat output of the vw 16v engine, and
> cant simply be 'dropped in' without some major mods.
> 
> if you look here:
> http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm#outline2
> 
> you will see that evans sells special coolant pumps and radiators to use on
> modern cars. this is obviously to overcome the low heat capacity of their
> coolant. then there is this line at the bottom of that section:
> "Due to the typical low compression ratios and horsepower of vintage,
> antique, and collector cars, NPG can be used in most cases without any
> modifications to existing cooling system components."
> think back to those cars with tiny engines and huge-ass radiators (not our
> case). those are the cars that you can simply drop this evans stuff into.
> 
> ...so ron, was this the stuff you were gonna use?
> Al
> 
> 

Read further...  TT tested it ten years ago, and they loved it, except for the 
mods that you have to do to get it to work.    That was with NPG, not NPG+.  
They also said that you could effectively run 12-1 compression without any 
ping (on high octane gas, not race fuel).  You do not need any mods to your 
system at all to run it.  I have none.  However, I would recommend using this 
on a new cooling system, ie, a system that has all new hoses, pump, T-stat, 
etc, as I have heard of a few folks (including me) having trouble with older 
equipment (that should read, original).  Read a bit further through that maze, 
and I think you might be more interested...

HTH,
  David Utley

David Utley
-----------
Cable Volkswagen
405-470-3129
1-800-522-6793