weird rocco happenings (part deux)

[amalventano at sc.rr.com (Allyn)]

ok, just did more investigating:

ignition contacts are a tad loose, but not enough to cause ignition cut. 
turns out only the contact associated with the accessories / load reduction 
is on the iffy side. i just corrected that with some zip ties on the plug to 
prevent the motion that was causing the problem.

also, went for another test drive, tried to agitate the problem. bliping the 
throttle while in 2nd gear at 4000 rpm, attempting to jostle the engine in 
the engine bay. i got it to stumble a few times, and i finally got one of 
the stumbles to 'stick' (they usually go away the next time i accelerate, or 
cycle the key and start the engine again). while in the condition, the 
engine cranked and had a hard time starting (initial crank speed was fine, 
but it slowly spun faster and faster till it could hold its own idle and i 
could stop cranking, then i had to keep gas on to keep even an idle going. 
it ran very stuttery as i went the block to my house. the problem 'feels' 
like a fuel problem - its just not on/off like ignition probs usually are. 
no particular i managed to e-brake into the driveway (same as the first 
post), and (again) observe the stumbly idle that resulted.

popped hood, checked every electrical connector i could think of. wiggled 
all connectors in the engine bay (including ecu / knock box / o2 sensor, 
grounds, everything). nothing had an effect on the stumbly idle. moved onto 
the fuse block - again no effect. moved back to the throttle, where i gave 
it a few small revs - still stumbly. then i gave it a big rev and it 
'snapped out of it', returning to normal idle.

i then went around the block again, doing everything i could to toss the 
engine around in the engine bay, but i could not get it to stumble again. 
so, like all intermittent problems, this one is going to continue to be a 
ghost in the green machine.

ugh...

Al

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Utley" <mr.utility@highstream.net>
To: "Allyn" <amalventano@sc.rr.com>
Cc: "Mark" <mardak@cogeco.ca>; "'Larry'" <rocco16@sbcglobal.net>; "'scirocco 
list'" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: weird rocco happenings (part deux)


> Sounds like to me that the electrical part of your ignition switch is
> bad/iffy.  Has it ever been replaced?
>
> If you think that might be it, with it running, move the key around to any
> safe angle (without accidentally engaging the starter of course) you can 
> think
> of.  If it stutters, that is your problem...
>
> HTH
>
>
> David Utley
>
> Quoting Allyn <amalventano@sc.rr.com>:
>
>> ok, so last weekend i did the gunk engine brite all over the engine bay
>> treatment, followed by hosing the crap out of the engine bay (with engine
>> running), hoping to agitate whatever fault there may be. not a single
>> flinch, despite drenching everything with the nozzle set on 'jet'. i did
>> some cheezy checks of the idle switch (note: if its stuck open, it makes 
>> the
>>
>> idle high, not low), and some other under-hood checks. came up empty.
>>
>> ...and everything was fine all of this week (i drive the rieger 30 mins 
>> to /
>>
>> from work daily).
>>
>> then today i got the same cut-out. happened while coasting in gear 
>> (again).
>> hit gas, nothing. cycled neutral, attempting roll-start - nothing. cycled
>> key - voala, back in business. 10 secs later it does it again, this time 
>> i
>> stop and restart engine - starts again, no problem. it does it once more,
>> but this time as im coasting with it floored, it pops back to life out of
>> nowhere.
>>
>> i deduce the following on the rest of the trip home:
>> - happens while decelerating - possibly electrical in engine bay caused 
>> by
>> engine torquing forward, or something electrical that is sensitive to
>> deceleration. (problem never happens while on throttle, no matter how 
>> much
>> throttle - trust me :).
>> - comes back after messing with key - possibly something with ignition
>> switch.
>>
>> after pulling into the driveway i turn the engine off, then turn the key
>> back to ignition and slowly figit with it towards the off direction. i 
>> hear
>> a click come from the fuse panel, but the ignition is still on. turn key 
>> cw
>> again (still in 'on' position), and get another click. i can now cycle 
>> the
>> key back and forth about 10 degrees and i'm causing 'some' click from the
>> fuse panel. i figure this is my problem, so i start the engine again and 
>> do
>> the same cycling of the key. the clicks continue from the fuse panel, but 
>> it
>>
>> has no effect on engine idle at all (weird, i thought it was the fuel 
>> pump
>> relay that was clicking). turn off engine and fiddle with key while 
>> checking
>>
>> relays. turns out its the load reduction relay. i'll admit, im weak on 
>> what
>> load reduction is supposed to do, but i can say now it has no effect on 
>> the
>> idle. question is, could it result in engine cut while driving?
>>
>> any other ideas, please dont hesitate to throw in your $0.02
>> Al
>>
>> Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
>> 87 Rieger Scirocco GTO 2.0 16v (daily driver, 200k, rocco #6)
>> 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX (30% complete, rocco #7)
>> 86.5 Occo 16v Trailer (rocco #8)
>> 90 Passat GL 16V (the wifes new daily, 200k)
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Allyn" <amalventano@sc.rr.com>
>> To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 6:55 PM
>> Subject: weird rocco happenings
>>
>>
>> > ok, so im on the way back from kill bill 2 (most excellent, btw).
>> >
>> > take 26 home, and put the rieger into a 1.1g drift along the exit ramp
>> > (right bank).
>> > i bask in the sounds of sliding kumho and occasional per-clunks of 
>> > loose
>> > objects finding their way to the driver side of the beast.
>> > end of ramp, no power, absolutely none. no warning lights (still in 
>> > gear,
>> > engine still turning). as i am slowing, i figure i caught some water in
>> > the
>> > fuel suction, but this is unlikely (right turn, not left, and i am at 
>> > 3/4
>> > tank, and i took care of that water problem weeks ago).
>> > i coast further, figuring whatever it is will pass. i keep the gas
>> > planted.
>> > still nothing.
>> > hit clutch and let it die. cycle key. start. cranks right up.
>> > drive 2 blocks to turn right into neighborhood. hit clutch as i slow 
>> > for
>> > the
>> > turn. engine dies. i notice the sound of a relay clicking a couple of
>> > times
>> > as i cycle the clutch to try and roll-start. my guess is it was the 
>> > fuel
>> > pump relay responding to ignition pulses (an expected action).
>> > roll-start successful as i accelerate out of the turn.
>> > go couple more blocks, slow for left turn, engine dies again. roll 
>> > start
>> > out
>> > of turn - again successful.
>> > carefully make last turn to house street. this time i stay on the gas 
>> > and
>> > keep it in gear. no issues, but the engine doesnt 'feel' as happy as it
>> > usually is.
>> > i carefully keep the gas on as i drop into neutral and e-brake to a 
>> > stop
>> > in
>> > the driveway. once stationary, i slowly let off gas to see what the 
>> > deal
>> > is.
>> > idle slows to a very slow crawl. its a stumbly idle. firing on all
>> > cylinders, no missing at all, but its a slower idle (~600), and its
>> > stumbly
>> > because of it.
>> > pop hood, everything looks good. do the obligatory check of the idle 
>> > speed
>> > set screw - right where i left it. wiggle various connectors, no 
>> > effect.
>> > do
>> > quick cursory checks for vacuum leaks - nothing. plug wires look good. 
>> > no
>> > leaks anywhere. wife comes out to see whats up. i chat while doing 
>> > further
>> > inspecting. finally i end up grabbing the throttle body and give it a
>> > couple
>> > of good blips. after the revs, engine returns to a perfect purring 
>> > idle. i
>> > mess with it more, but cannot get it to return to its crappy idle.
>> >
>> > notes:
>> > - first time it died, i believe i had tach indication, and i believe 
>> > the
>> > fuel pump was running, yet engine did not return to running condition
>> > depsite coasting at 4k rpm with ignition still on. despite this, it
>> > started
>> > just fine after the engine was allowed to stop.
>> > - cause is likely linked to what made the idle crappy, but that doesnt
>> > make
>> > sense.
>> > - it appears the fault is causing the low idle speed, and its also 
>> > causing
>> > undershoot of idle if returning from revs, resulting in engine stall.
>> >
>> > ideas?
>> >
>> > thx in advance for pondering / suggestions
>> > Al
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
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>> >
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> David Utley
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