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WAS: Turbo vs. Supercharger NOW: VNT Turbos



Goddam! You think they know what a paragraph break is?

Neal

--- Eric S <scirocco81@vwmail.net> wrote:
> Ahh...hit the send button too soon, here is a great
> little essay on these turbos with a pretty damn fine
> explaination of how the turbo controls boost.
> 
>
http://essay.studyarea.com/essay/Physic_Chemistry_Space/11.shtml
> 
> --
> Eric
> www.VintageWatercooleds.com
> 
> 79 VW Iltis
> 81 Scirocco S (*TDI* swap and complete restoration
> in holding pattern)
> 81 Rabbit Truck LX Diesel (FOR SALE!)
> 81 Rabbit Truck 2.0 16v Motronic
> 83 Scirocco Wolfsburg
> 91 Cabriolet (2.0 Crossflow 8v swap and mechanical
> rebuild in progress)
> 
> 
> --- message from "L F" <rocco16v@netzero.net>
attached:

> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 
> From: "L F" <rocco16v@netzero.net>
> To: <scirocco81@vwmail.net>, "dale witt"
> <dwitt1@satx.rr.com>,
> 	"Neal Tovsen" <nealtovsen@yahoo.com>,
> 	"Scirocco List" <Scirocco-l@Scirocco.org>
> Subject: Re: Turbo vs. Supercharger.
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:49:02 -0700
> 
> Eric-
>   Gear that supercharger up (to compensate for
> altitude) and you gotcher horsies back.
> Turbos don't experience boost loss at altitude
> because they're always trying to make all the boost
> they can and you have to rein 'em in with the waste
> gate, which is pressure-controlled.  Thought you
> knew that....
> (and, believe this, turbo power is not free power. 
> NOTHING is free...)
> Not saying turbosuperchargers don't work...they work
> just fine.
> Larry
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Eric S 
>   To: dale witt ; Neal Tovsen ; Scirocco List 
>   Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:35 PM
>   Subject: Re: Turbo vs. Supercharger.
> 
> 
>   Since this topic has come up again....I'll make
> the same point I always do.
> 
>   Since I am a "high lander" at 5200 ft high here in
> Denver, and regularly go to the mountains, I would
> NEVER install a supercharger on any of my dubs. 
> With its static spin rate it has NO way to
> compensate for the thinner air up here and boosts
> much less at altitude. 
> 
>   A turbo, with its freewheeling/free power nature
> will actually spin faster at altitude to make the
> same boost and does an effective job at almost
> completely overcoming altitude loss, where NA and
> supered cars cannot.
> 
>   Many of you were impressed by Marc Gettys
> (spelling?) C230 Kompressor at Cincy this
> year...I'll tell you this, those things are absolute
> DOGS up here...I know, I test drove one and was
> throughly dissapointed...
> 
>   --
>   Eric
>   www.VintageWatercooleds.com
> 
>   79 VW Iltis
>   81 Scirocco S (*TDI* swap and complete restoration
> in holding pattern)
>   81 Rabbit Truck LX Diesel (FOR SALE!)
>   81 Rabbit Truck 2.0 16v Motronic
>   83 Scirocco Wolfsburg
>   91 Cabriolet (2.0 Crossflow 8v swap and mechanical
> rebuild in progress)
> 
> 
>   --- "dale witt" <dwitt1@satx.rr.com> wrote:
>   >I was speaking of our dubs in general and VWs
> attitude on the subject
>   >of the supercharger.  They could have used the
> quality of an Eaton or
>   >Lysholm (they do have deep pockets), but instead
> they seemed to say
>   >"Oh well, not too good" and they just dumped the
> G60 like a bad idea.
>   >I have several friends that tried to stay loyal
> to the G60, but have since
>   >gone the turbo route, or just gave up on the
> Corrado completely.  I had
>   >every intention to make the Supercharger my next
> upgrade to my 86, now
>   >I am pretty much convinced to do the Turbo.  I
> guess there have been
>   >too many cases of VWs with superchargers going
> south.
>   >
>   >Dale Witt
>   >03 GTI 20AE
>   >86.5 2.0 16v Scirocco
>   >82 2.1 16v Zender Wide Body Scirocco
>   >
>   >----- Original Message ----- 
>   >From: "Neal Tovsen" <nealtovsen@yahoo.com>
>   >To: "dale witt" <dwitt1@satx.rr.com>; "Scirocco
> List"
>   ><Scirocco-l@Scirocco.org>
>   >Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:34 PM
>   >Subject: Re: Turbo vs. Supercharger.
>   >
>   >
>   >> ? For the average driver, I believe the
>   >> > supercharger is just too
>   >> > high maintenance.
>   >>
>   >> I think the ***G60*** was too much maintenance
> for the
>   >> average person. But that is in no way an
> indication of
>   >> supercharger maintenance in general. The G60
> design
>   >> was unique and never perfected. The technology
> didn't
>   >> exist, and nobody invested in it.
>   >>
>   >> Eaton or Lysholm units requre no more
> maintenance than
>   >> a turbo. Some claim they require less. There's
> an
>   >> Eaton-charged Rabbit on Vortex that claims to
> have put
>   >> 150k on his SC after he pulled it from a
> junkyard!
>   >>
>   >> Neal
>   >>
>   >> --- dale witt <dwitt1@satx.rr.com> wrote:
>   >> > What do you suppose was the thinking at VW,
> as they
>   >> > never really made a big
>   >> > hit with the G60 and pretty much let it take
> a back
>   >> > seat to the VR and now
>   >> > the turbo.  For the average driver, I believe
> the
>   >> > supercharger is just too
>   >> > high maintenance.
>   >> >
>   >> > Dale Witt
>   >> > 03 GTI 20AE
>   >> > 86.5 2.0 16v Scirocco
>   >> > 82 2.1 16v Zender wide body Scirocco
>   >> >
>   >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   >> > From: "L F" <rocco16v@netzero.net>
>   >> > To: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>; "Mike
> Smith"
>   >> > <smithma7@yahoo.com>;
>   >> > "car" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
>   >> > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 7:14 PM
>   >> > Subject: Re: Turbo vs. Supercharger.
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >   A million opinions!
>   >> >   Superchargers tend to be less efficient
>   >> > particularly at higher pressure
>   >> >   ratios. So, they aren't as good at making
> really
>   >> > high power.
>   >> >
>   >> >   YOU'D BETTER TELL THAT TO JOHN FORCE, HE
> COULD USE
>   >> > SOME ADVICE ABOUT NOW.
>   >> >
>   >> >   OTOH a big really high power laggy turbo is
> the
>   >> > last thing you need for an
>   >> >   autocross car. Superchargers, particularly
>   >> > positive displacement types,
>   >> > have
>   >> >   fast response.
>   >> >   The primary issue then is quick response
> vs. power
>   >> > producing capability.
>   >> >   There are a million secondary issues!
>   >> >   just my .02
>   >> >   Dan
>   >> >
>   >> >   AS FOR THE REST, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE
> WITH DAN.
>   >> >   HAVE FUN!
>   >> >   LARRY
>   >> >
> _______________________________________________
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>   >> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>   >> >
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >
> _______________________________________________
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>   >> > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>   >> >
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>   >>
>   >>
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