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The whole 1.8T puny injector debacle



I found the scientific part of the discussion to be quite interesting.
And I also know you were quite clear from the beginning that you had
concerns for the motor destroying itself should the injectors lean out
for any reason since they apparently are operating at near max capacity.
This is all good -- this is exactly why people are here (AFAIK).  Oh,
and I have to admit I missed the part about it may have bigger injectors
in it.

I agree with you 100% that the personal attacks didn't contribute
anything to the discussion other than to disclose the personalities of
those making them.  Worse, these coming from people with A LOT of
knowledge to share with the rest of us.

Unfortunately, it appears we will never have the answers to questions
such as:
    Is the car making the power (topic question) with those injectors?
    If it is, how did they do that?
    Was there unreasonable risk involved in the set-up?
    Or is it a matter of not meeting currently held beliefs of what the
safety margin should be?

The good news is Josh is on his way to the 300+ benchmark.  So, in a
good way I'll say You go boy!

Erik L

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott F. Williams <sfwilliams@comcast.net>
To: Erik La Celle <lacelle@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: The whole 1.8T puny injector debacle


> > You never heard that?  This is the exact reason why this thread is
so
> > annoying.  You didn't read a bunch of this thread because the
contention
> > is that these injectors CANNOT make the power shown on the dyno.
This
> > is the issue.   Stick with the program here.
>
> Hey, dude. I started the injector thread and will thusly claim
ownership of
> the original intent. You are absolutely correct about my assessment of
the
> injectors. I said before and will say again that they can't produce
that
> kind of power. My suggestion the whole while has been that Josh's dyno
> numbers are probably correct and that his injectors are bigger than he
> thinks.
>
> The spirit of my objections has been entirely scientific and Josh
knows
> this. We've communicated quite a bit offline so he  understands the
context
> of the dispute from my point of view. However, some (unnamed) people
get
> more enjoyment out of character assasination then pushing the
boundaries of
> hotrod knowledge or the pursuit thereof. That folks have begun flaming
each
> other over this topic seriously pisses me off. Again, the point here
was to
> strongly challenge Josh's claims so as to reveal the truth.
>
> One side of me hopes to be proven right -that my math and casual
engineering
> knowledge will be proven sound. The other side of me welcomes a
reality
> check -information that demonstrates a paradigm shift in fuel injector
> technique. Either way, I will feel that the thread has fulfilled its
> intended purpose.
>
> > > > People aren't saying it "isn't safe" they are point blank
calling
> > > > me, and  assorted 1.8t tuners liars.
>
> The first arguement was that Josh's injectors were running at 75% duty
> cycle. Meanwhile a call to his tuner revealed that it was more like
> something over 90%. Frankly, I remain astounded that the units could
flow
> enough fuel at even 100%! Anyway, behind the scenes (off list) Josh
asked a
> bunch of questions and he decided to play it safe with some bigger
> injectors. Although the guy has his pride which often gets in the way
of his
> common sense, he isn't stupid. -immature? YES! -stupid? Nah...
>
> > > No. I point blank called you a PUNK.
>
> I gave Meze a tongue lashing for that one. My motivations are
intellectual
> and this sort of behaviour derailed the point of the exercise.
>
> > Also, Josh already got the point because he's decided to get
> > bigger injectors and remap.  THIS WAS DAYS AGO!!!
>
> And, even with some of the nonsense going on Josh did the right thing.
That
> makes this all worth it to me. I know Josh appreciates it, too. Of
course,
> he'd never admit that to the group, but... .that's his own perogative.
:^)
>
> > The car has been offered to be placed on the dyno, the person(s) who
are
> > wrong to pay the cost.  NO ONE has taken him up on this.  Hmm.
>
> That was a great tactical move on Mr. Able's part. I doubt that anyone
will
> put up or shut up. My point has been about the injectors the whole
while,
> though. I am inclined to believe that he's making the power. Let's see
what
> he can do with the bigger injectors! That'll be a very interesting
test
> itself.
>
> Anyway, thanks for listening. I realize that you weren't even
criticizing me
> with  your comments. However, I do want list members to understand the
> motivation behind the whole debate. So long as some or all of us learn
> something from this, it is surely all good!
> --
> Scott F. Williams
> NJ Scirocco nut
> '99 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
> Mazda 323 GTX turbo "assaulted" vehicle
> Golf GTI 16v "rollycar"
> ClubVAC: "Roads found. Drivers wanted."
>
>
>