Mimi supercharger, was Re: On the topic of superchargers

[Scirocco-Al" <scirocco-Al@insight.rr.com (Scirocco-Al)]

I don't know if I've mentioned it but the company I wotk for is making some
tooling for the assembly line that puts together the mini's supercharger.
One of the engineers that sits next to me has a complete unit at his desk.
I'm not sure if I like the design of it.  It is a standard roots blower
(very much like the one I have in my garage) except they have extended the
input shaft of the supercharger out of the back of the cast housing to turn
the water pump.  The waterpump bolts into a pocket on the back of the
supercharger.
 They thing that I really don't like is that coolant will flow around the
input shaft.  A seal will keep the coolant out of the supercharger part of
the housing.  I just have visions of having high miles on the car, reving
the hell out of that motor, having a bad seal on the waterpump side of the
supercharger and having the vacuum in the intake system made by suddenly
taking your foot off of the gas sucking water into the intake system.  If
that ever happens it would really suck.

Alan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <rocco16v@netzero.com>
To: "Mike Blain" <rept@qwest.net>; <scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: On the topic of superchargers


> Mike-
>   That's (one of) the beauty(s) of supercharging: a supercharged engine IS
> managable!  Far more so than a turbo! (C'mon, Noah, let's go to round
> three....DING!)  You don't need to clutch it!
> Which, by the way, makes me wonder; just how driveable is a motor with a
> non-functioning supercharger plugging up its intake tract?
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Blain <rept@qwest.net>
> To: <scirocco-L@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:06 AM
> Subject: On the topic of superchargers
>
>
> > My engine sits at Momentum's shop in Canada- and I have all the
> > components in place to turbo or Supercharge at this point. As it sits i
> > can expect 175+ HP from my lil 2L.   What I'd like to do is find and
> > install one of those clutched on/off superchargers so that the car is
> > manageable under normal aspiration and yet- I can achieve boost when
> > needed at the flip of a switch.
> > Last year I saw one of these devices on Ebay for 500. It was for an MR2
> > (?). Does anyone on the list know of any Clutched Chargers still being
> > manufactured, that will work for my purpose?
> >
> >
> > Mike Blain (don't make me dish my pistons punk)
> >
> > Noah wrote:
> >
> > >>1) Superchargers are easier to deal with and support
> > >>as a manufacturer. I would argue that Neuspeed or
> > >>Jackson racing has far fewer "customer complaint"
> > >>(what I might call "customer stupidity") issues than
> > >>Greddy. The fact that boost levels are not directly
> > >>related to crankshaft speed creates a LOT of issues
> > >>that the average person can't deal with and tune for
> > >>properly. Wastegates, fueling, timing, etc. are all
> > >>more difficult to manage when you cannot directly tie
> > >>air consumption to engine speed. Couple that with the
> > >>millions of stupid people out there, and you see why
> > >>there are relatively few mass-produced turbo kits.
> > >>
> > >
> > >     I read all that as saying "Supercharger kits are more proprietary
> and
> > > thus pretuned to certain boost levels, therefore easier to set up but
> less
> > > flexible." That is not really something I am in favor of.
> > >
> > >     As far as using a G-lader based supercharger setup transplanted
from
> a
> > > corrado, I would urge you to reconsider. The G-lader is just not
> reliable
> > > enough. With stock boost levels it doesnt make good hp and if you go
> much
> > > over stock you are asking for trouble. As for the alternatives, the
> horror
> > > story I referred to was a Lysholm (sp?) kit for the corrado. This
thing
> is
> > > totally underwelming powerwise, and the bearings in it are SO loud
they
> can
> > > be heard above the engine.
> > >
> > >
> > >>2) The reason I personally am going with a
> > >>supercharger is due to the intended purpose of my
> > >>vehicle: autocrossing. The nature of autocrossing
> > >>means that instantaneous throttle response and a
> > >>linear torque curve are FAR more important than
> > >>efficiency and maximum power potential. I'm wondering
> > >>how in the world I'm going to get 200whp hooked to the
> > >>ground...300whp in a 1900lb car on an autocross would
> > >>be completely unmanagable and slow me down. I also
> > >>need to be able to apply power whenever I want, *NOW*.
> > >>There are people who are pretty successful at planning
> > >>in advance for turbo lag on an autocross, but it is
> > >>definitely not an ideal situation. If they make a
> > >>slight mistake in their timing, it costs them several
> > >>tenths of a second to correct, then potentially a
> > >>second or more to get the boost back up. That's the
> > >>difference between an easy 1st place and 10th at a big
> > >>event.
> > >>
> > >
> > > hmm. When I go to the autocross the two biggest stars there are the
> > > mr2...turbo, and the late gen rx7... turbo. Not to mention all the
> > > turbocharged miatas... When you are on a track and you are reacting
> solely
> > > to the track and not other cars, the turbo shouldn't hurt you a bit.
In
> fact
> > > the lag (what little there is in any modern turbo car) will help you
> stay
> > > hooked up, and even keep you from breaking your car. As you know, it's
> much
> > > more important to be smooth than to be fast.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Additionally, having a direct relationship between
> > >>throttle position and power output is a huge
> > >>advantage. I've talked to enough Supra drivers to
> > >>understand the issues created when you're navigating a
> > >>long-ish sweeper or a slalom at part throttle in a
> > >>big-boost turbo car. Just about the time you've set
> > >>the car up nicely for the turn, and balanced the
> > >>brakes, throttle, and steering on the head of a pin,
> > >>20psi of boost comes rushing in to mess it all up! At
> > >>3500rpm a Supra might make 150whp...but 1/2sec later
> > >>at 3600rpm it could be doing 350whp! There is NO
> > >>in-between. Managing that situation definitely takes
> > >>time/attention away from driving faster.
> > >>
> > >
> > > So you are saying that he couldn't let off the gas and get thru there
in
> the
> > > same way you would? I'm not sure I can make any kind meaningful
argument
> in
> > > this example. Far too many variables.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>And on top of it all, my rough calculations indicate
> > >>that, presuming the same intercooler size/location, a
> > >>G60 setup is probably at least 15-30lbs lighter than a
> > >>turbo. The G60 itself is only about 15lbs, there's
> > >>much less plumbing, no extra manifold weight, no
> > >>wastegate (well, the bypass valve on the TB weighs a
> > >>few ounces, I suppose), etc. When you rely on light
> > >>weight to beat 600hp AWD cars, 30lbs does matter.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I tend to think the two systems would be basically the same weight,
the
> only
> > > real difference is the wastegate, and it weighs maybe 5lbs. Regarding
> > > plumbing - with a turbo I have one tube running from filter to turbo,
> one
> > > from turbo to IC, one from IC to intake. You will have one from filter
> to
> > > blower, one from blower to IC, one from IC to intake. You will have to
> move
> > > something (Alt, AC, etc) to the back of the motor or delete it,
whereas
> I
> > > can mount all my aux stuff in common locations. Not sure how you will
> mount
> > > the intercooler from the corrado, but it's a pig anyway, you'd be
better
> off
> > > with an aftermarket one, of course if you do that you will be making
> custom
> > > intake hoses, something you seemed opposed to.
> > >
> > > Question: which VW chassis are you considering for the swap? A2? If
you
> are
> > > determined to have a Golf with a G-lader, maybe you would consider
> buying
> > > one already set-up? There's one here that belongs to a friend of mine.
> He's
> > > a mechanic with too much going on to mess with it. He's got about 5k
in
> it I
> > > think. It has been described as "Too fast for that chassis" - He
bought
> it
> > > as a track car from another local dubber. That might be a good deal
for
> you
> > > after you consider the expense of all the stuff you will need. Looks
> like
> > > the guys did a pretty good job on it too, I've seen it first hand a
> couple
> > > of times, but I've yet to ride in it. In NC if it's of any interest.
> > >
> > > -Noah
> > > -86 Audi 5ktq
> > > -84 Audi Quattro
> > > -82 Chevy Rollback wrecker! 454cu yeehaw!
> > > -Yard full of VWs that will become one car soon
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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