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tech: engine balancing - why dont our engines have balancer shafts?
Now Allyn, what exactly old big block Ford has balance shafts?
I know of no Ford V8 with balance shafts.
As a matter of fact, 90deg V8's; inline, 60 deg, 120 deg, or flat 6's or
12's all have perfect first and second order balance, SO!, why would
they need balance shafts???
As an aside, the reason some motorcycle engines have balance shafts when
they are only around 1L is because alot of motorcycle engines are part
of the chassis structure and are solid mounted. Any vibration
transmitted directly to the frame would be very noticeable.
Dan
Allyn wrote:
>
> I dont get it, balance shafts are used on all sorts of engines, including old ass v8's. How can
> mitsu have a balance shaft patent when an old ford big block has balance shafts?
> I think mitsus patent is on their particular balance shaft mechanism (it is compact, decent design,
> etc).
> Having a patent on balance shafts in general is like havent a patent on 2+2=4.
> Al
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
> Cc: "Ron Pieper" <rapieper@yahoo.com>; "audley wilson" <amwilson@andrew.cmu.edu>; "scirocco list"
> <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 7:47 AM
> Subject: Re: tech: engine balancing - why dont our engines have balancer shafts?
>
> > BZZZZZTT!
> > Wrongo!
> > Mitsubishi does indeed have a patent on balance shafts. And Porsche did
> > indeed pay a licensing fee to Mitsubishi for the 944 engine's use of
> > balance shafts.
> > Dan
> >
> > Allyn wrote:
> > >
> > > The mere use of a balancing shaft cant possibly be licensed. its too wide a topic for a patent
> in
> > > this situation. The only way to compensate for 2nd order force in an inline 4 cylinder without
> > > making other vibration is by using 2 balancing shafts. As long as the numbers are correct, there
> > > would be 0 block movement in any direction (the 2nd order force in an uncorrected engine causes
> a
> > > vertical movement). After some research my guess is that vw figured the engine was smooth
> enough.
> > > Al
> > >
> > > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
> > > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
> > > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels
> :)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ron Pieper" <rapieper@yahoo.com>
> > > To: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>; "audley wilson" <amwilson@andrew.cmu.edu>; "scirocco
> list"
> > > <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:45 PM
> > > Subject: Re: tech: engine balancing - why dont our engines have balancer shafts?
> > >
> > > > IIRC, that technology belonged to Mistubishi, and I assume that they
> > > > licensed it, and for some reason VW didn't/couldn't do it. That's
> > > > right off the top of my head...facts are welcome here...
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > > >
> > > > > <amalventano1@comcast.net>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > As the topic states, why dont our engines use balancer
> > > > > shafts? To
> > > > > > > perfectally balance a 4 cylinder engine, you must eliminate the
> > > > > 2nd order
> > > > > > > force generated by the pistons unequal opposition (piston near
> > > > > bottom
> > > > > > > moves less than piston near top - for a given crankshaft
> > > > > rotation).
> > > > > > > The big reason i am asking this is because our engines dont seem
> > > > > all too
> > > > > > > vibration prone as compared to an engine that employs a balancing
> > > > > shaft
> > > > > > > (i.e. the 2.0 DSM engines). Now before some of you try to
> > > > > think up a
> > > > > > > way to add balancing shafts to our engines, realize that to
> > > > > eliminate the
> > > > > > > 2nd order force, a balancing shaft must rotate at twice the speed
> > > > > of the
> > > > > > > crank.
> > > > > > > Another wrench to throw in the works is that the balancer on
> > > > > my talon
> > > > > > > was 1:1 driven from the crank, but had internal gearing such that
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > balancer spun at half the speed (i.e. just like the cams).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > > > > > > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
> > > > > > > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
> > > > > > > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles,
> > > > > original
> > > > > > > clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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