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tech: engine balancing - why dont our engines have balancer shafts?



I dont get it, balance shafts are used on all sorts of engines, including old ass v8's. How can
mitsu have a balance shaft patent when an old ford big block has balance shafts?
I think mitsus patent is on their particular balance shaft mechanism (it is compact, decent design,
etc).
Having a patent on balance shafts in general is like havent a patent on 2+2=4.
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
Cc: "Ron Pieper" <rapieper@yahoo.com>; "audley wilson" <amwilson@andrew.cmu.edu>; "scirocco list"
<scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: tech: engine balancing - why dont our engines have balancer shafts?


> BZZZZZTT!
> Wrongo!
> Mitsubishi does indeed have a patent on balance shafts. And Porsche did
> indeed pay a licensing fee to Mitsubishi for the 944 engine's use of
> balance shafts.
> Dan
>
> Allyn wrote:
> >
> > The mere use of a balancing shaft cant possibly be licensed. its too wide a topic for a patent
in
> > this situation. The only way to compensate for 2nd order force in an inline 4 cylinder without
> > making other vibration is by using 2 balancing shafts. As long as the numbers are correct, there
> > would be 0 block movement in any direction (the 2nd order force in an uncorrected engine causes
a
> > vertical movement). After some research my guess is that vw figured the engine was smooth
enough.
> > Al
> >
> > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
> > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
> > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels
:)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron Pieper" <rapieper@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>; "audley wilson" <amwilson@andrew.cmu.edu>; "scirocco
list"
> > <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: tech: engine balancing - why dont our engines have balancer shafts?
> >
> > > IIRC, that technology belonged to Mistubishi, and I assume that they
> > > licensed it, and for some reason VW didn't/couldn't do it.  That's
> > > right off the top of my head...facts are welcome here...
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > > <amalventano1@comcast.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >     As the topic states, why dont our engines use balancer
> > > > shafts? To
> > > > > > perfectally balance a 4 cylinder engine, you must eliminate the
> > > > 2nd order
> > > > > > force generated by the pistons unequal opposition (piston near
> > > > bottom
> > > > > > moves less than piston near top - for a given crankshaft
> > > > rotation).
> > > > > > The big reason i am asking this is because our engines dont seem
> > > > all too
> > > > > > vibration prone as compared to an engine that employs a balancing
> > > > shaft
> > > > > > (i.e. the 2.0 DSM engines).     Now before some of you try to
> > > > think up a
> > > > > > way to add balancing shafts to our engines, realize that to
> > > > eliminate the
> > > > > > 2nd order force, a balancing shaft must rotate at twice the speed
> > > > of the
> > > > > > crank.
> > > > > >     Another wrench to throw in the works is that the balancer on
> > > > my talon
> > > > > > was 1:1 driven from the crank, but had internal gearing such that
> > > > the
> > > > > > balancer spun at half the speed (i.e. just like the cams).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > > > > > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
> > > > > > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
> > > > > > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles,
> > > > original
> > > > > > clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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