RE: [tech] limited slip

["Scott F. Williams" <sfwilliams@home.com>]

How is it that my transmissions survive all the evil that I can hurl at
them? I torture my stuff to no end but have had only one failure. That
happened after I tried shifting without the clutch over a 500 mile rally.
There is a difference between driving hard and brutalizing your car.

Maybe people are just too damned rough on equipment? Smoothness is
fastness... :^)
--
Scott F. Williams
NJ Scirocco nut
Golf GTI 16v rallycar
Mazda 323 GTX turbo assault vehicle

Check out our rally team's website!
http://www.usrallyteam.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Gary Huff
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 7:26 PM
> To: Fry, Larry
> Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: Re: [tech] limited slip
>
>
> Stock reliability my ass :) That AGB blew itself apart when the
> only modifications to that 16v car was an exhaust system, and
> suspension work! There is no such thing as stock reliability with
> a VW -- my 1.8T is sitting at the dealer right now with a blown
> headgasket at 34k. Stock motor, *completely*. Not even chipped.
> These things break enough stock, just replace things with better
> pieces as they break. Save yourself trouble down the road when
> you want to make lots of torque & HP.
> 	-ghuff
>
> P.S. I've known people that have driven these cars harder without
> breaking things, there just seem to be plenty of lemons out there too.
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 12:08:21PM -0700, Fry, Larry wrote:
> > Unfortunately, if you double your torque - you'll halve the life of your
> > drivetrain.  (You CAN double your horsepower and not affect the
> rest of your
> > drivetrain, but that's another story...)
> > Any mechanism will have a "weak link", our 'Rocs are no different.
> > Bulletproof the gearbox and the clutch will evaporate.  Put in a massive
> > clutch and the CV's will give up.  Then shafts, etc.  Look at
> it this way;
> > every component has a finite life.  Every clutch-dump, every
> full-throttle
> > blast to redline, every top-end run takes you just that much closer to
> > failure of the weakest component.  Choose carefully, each
> "withdrawl" from
> > your "bank account" of WFO blasts; you only have so many before
> you break
> > the next piece.  What's my point?  If you give up stock reliability for
> > modified speed, expect to replace parts.  That's the price we
> pay for having
> > fun. and-fun-costs-money.
> > The above is not meant for most of you listers, you already
> know it.  It's
> > for you younger guys who are ready to sink every paycheck (plus a little
> > plastic)into the motor without leaving some cash to replace
> busted parts.
> > Have fun, but be prepared for the inevitable.
> >
> > Larry  sandiego16V
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary Huff [mailto:scirocco86@home.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:18 PM
> > To: Dan Bubb
> > Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > Subject: Re: [tech] limited slip
> >
> >
> > Yes, AGB trannies suck like the rest. Talk to my 16v car, and
> the 2" hole a
> > rivet blew in the bellhousing. It happened launching out of
> first, easily
> > too. I wasn't even laying into it. Felt like the tranny locked
> for a second
> > then started to go. Has anyone looked into doing things to make
> a VW tranny
> > with a quaiffe bulet proof? I'd like to maybe look into treating the
> > mainshaft, synchros and gearsso that 200whp won't turn them into dust. I
> > don't feel like replacing trannies in my mk1 every few months after it's
> > built :(
> > 	-ghuff
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 09:22:34AM -0400, Dan Bubb wrote:
> > > My experience, from laying under the car and torquing axle bolts, is
> > > that it doesn't take much force to turn the wheels in opposite
> > > directions with the "factory limited slip." It seems large
> when it's on
> > > the bench cause you're turning the drive flange so your torque arm is
> > > only 2".
> > > Let's take a quick look at some numbers relative to the
> "factory limited
> > > slip" Assume it takes 20 lbs force, applied at the tread, to turn the
> > > wheels opposite directions. (I think this is a generous number, but
> > > haven't measured it.) 20 lbs X ~ 1 ft. radius is (tah-dah!) 20 ft-lbs
> > > torque. (Note: this value doesn't change based on load!)
> > > Now even the most pathetic JH makes 100 ft-lbs at the crank. Multiply
> > > this times first gear, times the final drive and then subtract 15% for
> > > losses and you end up with  ~1155 ft-lbs at the wheels.
> > > So, the "factory limited slip" can redistribute 20 ft-lbs of the
> > > available 1155 ft-lbs. Or, to restate, it can redistribute 1.7%.
> > > For comparison, a quaiffe or torsen differential can
> redistribute ~80%!
> > >
> > > Personally, I think we should stop refering to those pathetic
> springs as
> > > "factory limited slip"??
> > >
> > > As far as the ring gear rivets, I don't know if the AGB still had the
> > > problem, but I'd do it anyway and while I was in there I'd inspect the
> > > bearings (especially the small tapered bearing next to the
> pinion gear),
> > > measure the synchro ring gaps, and install new seals and gaskets.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > Rick Alexander wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ok, this begs a question.
> > > >
> > > > I have an 020 AGB that I removed from an '86.5 16v. My plan
> is to use it
> > in
> > > > a '86 Cabby with another 1.8 16v.
> > > >
> > > > While cleaning this up I noticed that by hand I can't move the cups
> > > > independently of each other. I said to 'self, "Wow might be
> a Quaif or
> > > > something in there. Better break this puppy open and see what's up".
> > > >
> > > > Question is, could the factory limited slip be that strong?
> > > >
> > > > While we're at the question game, is this differential
> subject to the
> > ring
> > > > gear rivet problem and should I break the case anyway to upgrade to
> > bolts?
> > > >
> > > > Any other suggestions while it's on the bench?
> > > >
> > > > Rick Alexander
> > > > http://www.brubakerbox.com
> > > > http://clubs.hemmings.com/hams/
> > > > http://clubs.hemmings.com/vwsrus/
> > > >
> > > > The factory limited slip that is in my 020 ???
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
> > > > To: "Mash" <type53@yahoo.com>; "Benjamin Harder"
> <vwtype53@yahoo.com>;
> > > > <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:55 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [tech] Attn: MK1 16v owners
> > > >
> > > > > It's not much of a limited slip! It's just a couple of
> springs keeping
> > > > > things from rattling around in there.
> > > > > Which is just saying that not having this feature is not much of a
> > > > negative.
> > > > > Dan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The FF does not have the factory limited slip - you'll
> > > > > > be spinning one wheel an awful lot . . .
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =====
> > > > > > Mark Peele
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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> > > > >
> > >
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