Re: [tech] limited slip

[Gary Huff <scirocco86@home.com>]

Stock reliability my ass :) That AGB blew itself apart when the only modifications to that 16v car was an exhaust system, and suspension work! There is no such thing as stock reliability with a VW -- my 1.8T is sitting at the dealer right now with a blown headgasket at 34k. Stock motor, *completely*. Not even chipped. These things break enough stock, just replace things with better pieces as they break. Save yourself trouble down the road when you want to make lots of torque & HP.
	-ghuff

P.S. I've known people that have driven these cars harder without breaking things, there just seem to be plenty of lemons out there too.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2001 at 12:08:21PM -0700, Fry, Larry wrote:
> Unfortunately, if you double your torque - you'll halve the life of your
> drivetrain.  (You CAN double your horsepower and not affect the rest of your
> drivetrain, but that's another story...)
> Any mechanism will have a "weak link", our 'Rocs are no different.
> Bulletproof the gearbox and the clutch will evaporate.  Put in a massive
> clutch and the CV's will give up.  Then shafts, etc.  Look at it this way;
> every component has a finite life.  Every clutch-dump, every full-throttle
> blast to redline, every top-end run takes you just that much closer to
> failure of the weakest component.  Choose carefully, each "withdrawl" from
> your "bank account" of WFO blasts; you only have so many before you break
> the next piece.  What's my point?  If you give up stock reliability for
> modified speed, expect to replace parts.  That's the price we pay for having
> fun. and-fun-costs-money.
> The above is not meant for most of you listers, you already know it.  It's
> for you younger guys who are ready to sink every paycheck (plus a little
> plastic)into the motor without leaving some cash to replace busted parts.
> Have fun, but be prepared for the inevitable.
> 
> Larry  sandiego16V
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Huff [mailto:scirocco86@home.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 12:18 PM
> To: Dan Bubb
> Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: Re: [tech] limited slip
> 
> 
> Yes, AGB trannies suck like the rest. Talk to my 16v car, and the 2" hole a
> rivet blew in the bellhousing. It happened launching out of first, easily
> too. I wasn't even laying into it. Felt like the tranny locked for a second
> then started to go. Has anyone looked into doing things to make a VW tranny
> with a quaiffe bulet proof? I'd like to maybe look into treating the
> mainshaft, synchros and gearsso that 200whp won't turn them into dust. I
> don't feel like replacing trannies in my mk1 every few months after it's
> built :(
> 	-ghuff
> 
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2001 at 09:22:34AM -0400, Dan Bubb wrote:
> > My experience, from laying under the car and torquing axle bolts, is
> > that it doesn't take much force to turn the wheels in opposite
> > directions with the "factory limited slip." It seems large when it's on
> > the bench cause you're turning the drive flange so your torque arm is
> > only 2".
> > Let's take a quick look at some numbers relative to the "factory limited
> > slip" Assume it takes 20 lbs force, applied at the tread, to turn the
> > wheels opposite directions. (I think this is a generous number, but
> > haven't measured it.) 20 lbs X ~ 1 ft. radius is (tah-dah!) 20 ft-lbs
> > torque. (Note: this value doesn't change based on load!)
> > Now even the most pathetic JH makes 100 ft-lbs at the crank. Multiply
> > this times first gear, times the final drive and then subtract 15% for
> > losses and you end up with  ~1155 ft-lbs at the wheels.
> > So, the "factory limited slip" can redistribute 20 ft-lbs of the
> > available 1155 ft-lbs. Or, to restate, it can redistribute 1.7%.
> > For comparison, a quaiffe or torsen differential can redistribute ~80%!
> > 
> > Personally, I think we should stop refering to those pathetic springs as
> > "factory limited slip"??
> > 
> > As far as the ring gear rivets, I don't know if the AGB still had the
> > problem, but I'd do it anyway and while I was in there I'd inspect the
> > bearings (especially the small tapered bearing next to the pinion gear),
> > measure the synchro ring gaps, and install new seals and gaskets.
> > 
> > Dan
> > 
> > Rick Alexander wrote:
> > > 
> > > Ok, this begs a question.
> > > 
> > > I have an 020 AGB that I removed from an '86.5 16v. My plan is to use it
> in
> > > a '86 Cabby with another 1.8 16v.
> > > 
> > > While cleaning this up I noticed that by hand I can't move the cups
> > > independently of each other. I said to 'self, "Wow might be a Quaif or
> > > something in there. Better break this puppy open and see what's up".
> > > 
> > > Question is, could the factory limited slip be that strong?
> > > 
> > > While we're at the question game, is this differential subject to the
> ring
> > > gear rivet problem and should I break the case anyway to upgrade to
> bolts?
> > > 
> > > Any other suggestions while it's on the bench?
> > > 
> > > Rick Alexander
> > > http://www.brubakerbox.com
> > > http://clubs.hemmings.com/hams/
> > > http://clubs.hemmings.com/vwsrus/
> > > 
> > > The factory limited slip that is in my 020 ???
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
> > > To: "Mash" <type53@yahoo.com>; "Benjamin Harder" <vwtype53@yahoo.com>;
> > > <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:55 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [tech] Attn: MK1 16v owners
> > > 
> > > > It's not much of a limited slip! It's just a couple of springs keeping
> > > > things from rattling around in there.
> > > > Which is just saying that not having this feature is not much of a
> > > negative.
> > > > Dan
> > > > >
> > > > > The FF does not have the factory limited slip - you'll
> > > > > be spinning one wheel an awful lot . . .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > =====
> > > > > Mark Peele
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > 
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