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Re: Rear Swaybar Differences...WAS: front swaybars vs SHINE



Lemmings, yeah, that's what they are... :-)

-josh


--- Allyn <amalventano1@home.com> wrote:
> Ben, go with neuspeed or autotech, thats what the
> rest of us seem to do.
> honestly the factory rear swaybar is pretty good for
> street. Especially the thicker ones that came
> on 16v's. i've got stock swaybars on the rieger
> coupled with koni adjustables/neuspeed softsport
> springs, and i couldnt be happier.
> al
> 
> Allyn Malventano, ET1(SS), USN
> 87 rocco 16v (rieger gto - green - 'der rocco' -
> restoration in progress)
> 87 jetta 8v wolfsburg 2dr (260k, still tight :)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Benjamin Harder" <vwtype53@yahoo.com>
> To: "josh Wyte" <josh_wyte@yahoo.com>;
> <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:31 AM
> Subject: Rear Swaybar Differences...WAS: front
> swaybars vs SHINE
> 
> 
> > Ok,
> >  After all the talk about swaybar use theory, I
> have noticed that most
> > will agree that a large REAR swaybar is good idea,
> for *most* applications.
> > I would like to know more about "selecting" a rear
> bar... I am comparing
> > the Neuspeed 28mm rear bar to the Shine rear bar. 
> They sound like two very
> > different designs.  The Neuspeed bar attaches to
> the axle beam where the
> > factory bar does (at the two middle points) and
> then the outer mounting
> > points are at the base of the rear struts.  The
> Shine bar bolts to the
> > front-portion of the rear axle beam...how I do not
> quite understand.
> > I would really like to know which bar would be
> "more effective".
> >   It sounds like the Shine rear bar attempts to
> just stiffen the actual
> > axle beam, while the *other* bars seem to prevent
> torsion in a different
> > method.  I'm just trying to figure out what the
> real differences are here.
> > So, more thoughts?
> >
> > TIA!
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- josh Wyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Don't condemn it unless you've tried it.
> > >
> > > I've done it all.  No front bar, stock front bar
> and
> > > larger front bar.  All with the largest rear bar
> I
> > > could find, which is the Shine rear bar.
> > >
> > > First some notes on the Shine rear swaybar.  It
> fit's
> > > inside the twist beam axle.  There are no
> brackets to
> > > break or bushings to wear out.  It's hollow, but
> > > really large, like 30+ mm.  It works great, but
> is a
> > > bit of a PITA to install.
> > >
> > > Now onto the front bar controversy...
> > > It really depends on what you do.  The entire
> point
> > > Shine is trying to make is that the car
> understeers
> > > (pushes) as it sits stock.  If you increase
> *both* the
> > > front and rear swaybar sizes the car will still
> push.
> > > Why do you want to do this for performance
> driving?
> > > The answer?  You don't!
> > >
> > > However, pulling off the front swaybar and
> running
> > > without one isn't all that great of an idea for
> a
> > > *street* car.  Without at least the stock front
> bar
> > > the car will appear to roll more and feel kinda
> wierd.
> > >  The race cars can get away with this because
> they run
> > > huge front spring rates.
> > >
> > > The stock front swaybar and the large rear bar
> will do
> > > several things.  First of all you won't spin the
> > > inside front wheel as much coming out of turns.
> > > Increased traction= lower lap times and better
> auto-x
> > > times.  It'll also allow the rear tires to stay
> more
> > > planted, more traction=better.  You'll also have
> less
> > > push and a chance to position the car with the
> > > throttle and brake, ie controllable oversteer to
> clip
> > > apexs.
> > >
> > > With a large front swaybar you get alot more
> push.
> > > You tie the front wheels together making it
> easier to
> > > spin the inside front wheel coming out of a
> turn.  YOu
> > > hike up the inside rear tire even more coming
> around
> > > bends, less traction.  You can't control the car
> with
> > > the throttle or brake through a turn.  The car
> does
> > > "feel" better for lower speed street driving
> tho, as
> > > it's very flat and you get alot of resistance
> thru the
> > > steering wheel when you put the car into a turn.
> > >
> > > If you do *any* kind of track driving you
> *don't* want
> > > a large front swaybar!  While I hope none of you
> is
> > > pushing your car hard enough on the street to
> actually
> > > discern what I'm talking about, if you do, then
> you
> > > also *don't* want a larger front swaybar. 
> Understeer
> > > is bad!
> > >
> > > -josh
> > >
> > >
> > > --- T Berk <tberk@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > > At 11:38 AM -0400 6/7/01, Josh[deady]Able
> wrote:
> > > > >Ok, I just want to get your views.
> > > > >Shine claims that no front sway bar, or at
> the very
> > > > least only a stock sway
> > > > >bar should be used in an A1 car.
> > > > >Personally from my own, and other peoples
> > > > experiences, think Shine is on
> > > > >crack.
> > > > >What are your views?
> > > > >
> > > > >Josh Able
> > > > >87 16v Seidl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Because it makes sense in one (some) setting
> it has
> > > > become the
> > > > defining Shine Recommendation.
> > > >
> > > > My take: Crack Monsters. Don't feed the habit.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > TBerk
> > > > balance is better, in all things
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Email LIST problems to:
> > > > scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in
> the
> > > > message to majordomo@scirocco.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Josh Wyte
> > > Momentum Motorsports
> > > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
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=== message truncated ===


=====
Josh Wyte 
Momentum Motorsports
508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST

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