Re: Rear Swaybar Differences...WAS: front swaybars vs SHINE

["Allyn" <amalventano1@home.com>]

Ben, go with neuspeed or autotech, thats what the rest of us seem to do.
honestly the factory rear swaybar is pretty good for street. Especially the thicker ones that came
on 16v's. i've got stock swaybars on the rieger coupled with koni adjustables/neuspeed softsport
springs, and i couldnt be happier.
al

Allyn Malventano, ET1(SS), USN
87 rocco 16v (rieger gto - green - 'der rocco' - restoration in progress)
87 jetta 8v wolfsburg 2dr (260k, still tight :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Harder" <vwtype53@yahoo.com>
To: "josh Wyte" <josh_wyte@yahoo.com>; <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:31 AM
Subject: Rear Swaybar Differences...WAS: front swaybars vs SHINE


> Ok,
>  After all the talk about swaybar use theory, I have noticed that most
> will agree that a large REAR swaybar is good idea, for *most* applications.
> I would like to know more about "selecting" a rear bar... I am comparing
> the Neuspeed 28mm rear bar to the Shine rear bar.  They sound like two very
> different designs.  The Neuspeed bar attaches to the axle beam where the
> factory bar does (at the two middle points) and then the outer mounting
> points are at the base of the rear struts.  The Shine bar bolts to the
> front-portion of the rear axle beam...how I do not quite understand.
> I would really like to know which bar would be "more effective".
>   It sounds like the Shine rear bar attempts to just stiffen the actual
> axle beam, while the *other* bars seem to prevent torsion in a different
> method.  I'm just trying to figure out what the real differences are here.
> So, more thoughts?
>
> TIA!
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> --- josh Wyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Don't condemn it unless you've tried it.
> >
> > I've done it all.  No front bar, stock front bar and
> > larger front bar.  All with the largest rear bar I
> > could find, which is the Shine rear bar.
> >
> > First some notes on the Shine rear swaybar.  It fit's
> > inside the twist beam axle.  There are no brackets to
> > break or bushings to wear out.  It's hollow, but
> > really large, like 30+ mm.  It works great, but is a
> > bit of a PITA to install.
> >
> > Now onto the front bar controversy...
> > It really depends on what you do.  The entire point
> > Shine is trying to make is that the car understeers
> > (pushes) as it sits stock.  If you increase *both* the
> > front and rear swaybar sizes the car will still push.
> > Why do you want to do this for performance driving?
> > The answer?  You don't!
> >
> > However, pulling off the front swaybar and running
> > without one isn't all that great of an idea for a
> > *street* car.  Without at least the stock front bar
> > the car will appear to roll more and feel kinda wierd.
> >  The race cars can get away with this because they run
> > huge front spring rates.
> >
> > The stock front swaybar and the large rear bar will do
> > several things.  First of all you won't spin the
> > inside front wheel as much coming out of turns.
> > Increased traction= lower lap times and better auto-x
> > times.  It'll also allow the rear tires to stay more
> > planted, more traction=better.  You'll also have less
> > push and a chance to position the car with the
> > throttle and brake, ie controllable oversteer to clip
> > apexs.
> >
> > With a large front swaybar you get alot more push.
> > You tie the front wheels together making it easier to
> > spin the inside front wheel coming out of a turn.  YOu
> > hike up the inside rear tire even more coming around
> > bends, less traction.  You can't control the car with
> > the throttle or brake through a turn.  The car does
> > "feel" better for lower speed street driving tho, as
> > it's very flat and you get alot of resistance thru the
> > steering wheel when you put the car into a turn.
> >
> > If you do *any* kind of track driving you *don't* want
> > a large front swaybar!  While I hope none of you is
> > pushing your car hard enough on the street to actually
> > discern what I'm talking about, if you do, then you
> > also *don't* want a larger front swaybar.  Understeer
> > is bad!
> >
> > -josh
> >
> >
> > --- T Berk <tberk@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > At 11:38 AM -0400 6/7/01, Josh[deady]Able wrote:
> > > >Ok, I just want to get your views.
> > > >Shine claims that no front sway bar, or at the very
> > > least only a stock sway
> > > >bar should be used in an A1 car.
> > > >Personally from my own, and other peoples
> > > experiences, think Shine is on
> > > >crack.
> > > >What are your views?
> > > >
> > > >Josh Able
> > > >87 16v Seidl
> > >
> > >
> > > Because it makes sense in one (some) setting it has
> > > become the
> > > defining Shine Recommendation.
> > >
> > > My take: Crack Monsters. Don't feed the habit.
> > >
> > >
> > > TBerk
> > > balance is better, in all things
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Josh Wyte
> > Momentum Motorsports
> > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST
> >
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