front swaybars vs SHINE: again

["Michael Abatzis" <abatzis2@hotmail.com>]

i've been running the shine "real street setup" for about two years, and am
pleased with it. the rear bar is very simple, nice. someone said it was a
pita to install, but it only took 4 holes to drill, though the axle material
is kinda tough. shine sells uprated springs with their setup to offset the
nfb thing; with progas's on it, it really isn't that harsh, especially on
atlanta roads.  it did suck in boston and nyc though. plus i've kept the
stock bar on; last autox i did notice some understeer. tried adjusting tire
pressure w/ no luck. when i replaced my control arms/strut
bearings/bushings/ball joints a couple of weeks ago i snapped a bolt on the
swaybar, and have been running w/o it since. can't tell the difference on
the street (though i haven't driven it _that_ hard), and am gonna run nfb
autox on sunday. i'll let you know how it compares, if anyone's interested.
-michael
disclaimer: i suck at driving

>
> Ok,
>  After all the talk about swaybar use theory, I have noticed that most
> will agree that a large REAR swaybar is good idea, for *most*
applications.
> I would like to know more about "selecting" a rear bar... I am comparing
> the Neuspeed 28mm rear bar to the Shine rear bar.  They sound like two
very
> different designs.  The Neuspeed bar attaches to the axle beam where the
> factory bar does (at the two middle points) and then the outer mounting
> points are at the base of the rear struts.  The Shine bar bolts to the
> front-portion of the rear axle beam...how I do not quite understand.
> I would really like to know which bar would be "more effective".
>   It sounds like the Shine rear bar attempts to just stiffen the actual
> axle beam, while the *other* bars seem to prevent torsion in a different
> method.  I'm just trying to figure out what the real differences are here.
> So, more thoughts?
>
> TIA!
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> --- josh Wyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Don't condemn it unless you've tried it.
> >
> > I've done it all.  No front bar, stock front bar and
> > larger front bar.  All with the largest rear bar I
> > could find, which is the Shine rear bar.
> >
> > First some notes on the Shine rear swaybar.  It fit's
> > inside the twist beam axle.  There are no brackets to
> > break or bushings to wear out.  It's hollow, but
> > really large, like 30+ mm.  It works great, but is a
> > bit of a PITA to install.
> >
> > Now onto the front bar controversy...
> > It really depends on what you do.  The entire point
> > Shine is trying to make is that the car understeers
> > (pushes) as it sits stock.  If you increase *both* the
> > front and rear swaybar sizes the car will still push.
> > Why do you want to do this for performance driving?
> > The answer?  You don't!
> >
> > However, pulling off the front swaybar and running
> > without one isn't all that great of an idea for a
> > *street* car.  Without at least the stock front bar
> > the car will appear to roll more and feel kinda wierd.
> >  The race cars can get away with this because they run
> > huge front spring rates.
> >
> > The stock front swaybar and the large rear bar will do
> > several things.  First of all you won't spin the
> > inside front wheel as much coming out of turns.
> > Increased traction= lower lap times and better auto-x
> > times.  It'll also allow the rear tires to stay more
> > planted, more traction=better.  You'll also have less
> > push and a chance to position the car with the
> > throttle and brake, ie controllable oversteer to clip
> > apexs.
> >
> > With a large front swaybar you get alot more push.
> > You tie the front wheels together making it easier to
> > spin the inside front wheel coming out of a turn.  YOu
> > hike up the inside rear tire even more coming around
> > bends, less traction.  You can't control the car with
> > the throttle or brake through a turn.  The car does
> > "feel" better for lower speed street driving tho, as
> > it's very flat and you get alot of resistance thru the
> > steering wheel when you put the car into a turn.
> >
> > If you do *any* kind of track driving you *don't* want
> > a large front swaybar!  While I hope none of you is
> > pushing your car hard enough on the street to actually
> > discern what I'm talking about, if you do, then you
> > also *don't* want a larger front swaybar.  Understeer
> > is bad!
> >
> > -josh
> >
> >
> > --- T Berk <tberk@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > At 11:38 AM -0400 6/7/01, Josh[deady]Able wrote:
> > > >Ok, I just want to get your views.
> > > >Shine claims that no front sway bar, or at the very
> > > least only a stock sway
> > > >bar should be used in an A1 car.
> > > >Personally from my own, and other peoples
> > > experiences, think Shine is on
> > > >crack.
> > > >What are your views?
> > > >
> > > >Josh Able
> > > >87 16v Seidl
> > >
> > >
> > > Because it makes sense in one (some) setting it has
> > > become the
> > > defining Shine Recommendation.
> > >
> > > My take: Crack Monsters. Don't feed the habit.
> > >
> > >
> > > TBerk
> > > balance is better, in all things
> > >
> > > --
> > > Email LIST problems to:
> > > scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the
> > > message to majordomo@scirocco.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Josh Wyte
> > Momentum Motorsports
> > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> > a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> > --
> > Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> > To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> > majordomo@scirocco.org
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
> a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> --
> Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
> majordomo@scirocco.org
>
>
> --
> Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
> To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to
majordomo@scirocco.org
>
>

--
Email LIST problems to: scirocco-l-probs@scirocco.org.
To unsubscibe send "unsubscribe scirocco-l" in the message to majordomo@scirocco.org