RE: Shock replacements... Tokiko.. a bit harsh.

["Neal Tovsen" <sixteen.volt@gte.net>]

OK, what are the ACTUAL symptoms? You've used the words "harsh", "bouncing", and
"flat-spin" (which I interpreted as "bottoming-out" or "hitting the
bump-stops"). These all indicate different problems with different solutions,
though you can certainly experience more than one. Pick one or more from the
following:

A) bouncing
B) harsh ride
C) stiff ride
D) bottoming-out

(A) continuous oscillation of the suspension, *after* you're past the bump. This
could be the result of sagging springs or underdamped/blown shocks (depending on
severity). Blown shocks are usually VERY obvious! If you have very stiff springs
(as some of the Neuspeeds are), it is quite possible that your shocks are OK but
not up to the task of controlling the stiff springs. In the softest setting,
even my Koni shocks will bounce on moderate highway bumps. If they're
adjustable, try a stiffer setting. If they're not, either get stiffer shocks or
softer springs.

(B) is more-or-less the oposite of (A), and indicates that you have too much
damping for the spring rate. IMHO, many people (wives, especially!) confuse a
"stiff" ride with a "harsh" ride, which I would define as two different things.
"Harsh" should indicate that the damping is so overly stiff that the tires
cannot follow the profile of bumps in the road, meaning that the car "crashes"
over them. If you feel like every crack in the highway is like a little ramp
launching the car into the air and crashing back down, that's "harsh". Soften
the damping or get stiffer springs.

(C) as mentioned above, is a suspension that has correct ratio of
spring/damping, but has been tuned for performance driving. "Stiff" should
indicate a properly matched spring/shock combo. Note that a really stiff, though
still properly matched spring/shock combination can equate to "harsh" on a
really bumpy road. Most non-coilover suspensions shouldn't have this problem. In
fact, a good off-the-shelf spring/shock combo can be stiff and yet still
reasonably comfortable even on long trips...as long as there aren't too many
LARGE bumps, of course! OTOH, some people just like cushy/floaty suspension, so
they'll describe a "stiff" setup as "harsh", and complain about it. IMHO, my
Koni/H&R setup fits this description.

(D) This is *completely* different than the other three. Yes, shocks can/do
provide *some* compression damping, but if you're whacking the bumpstops on
small bumps, it's almost 100% sagging/cut/broken SPRINGS, since they're actually
responsible for holding the car up. The primary job of the shocks is only to
control oscillation. If you keep bouncing *after* hitting a bump (whether you
bottom out or not), see symptiom A.

What are the symptoms you're experiencing? If you want to make it easy on
yourself, just get some H&R springs and Bilstein or Koni shocks and be done with
it. If the #1 goal is to make it comfortable for the wife, get stock springs and
Sachs/Boge OEM shocks. Either one should be a good, properly-matched setup.
Problem solved!

FYI, it's been a while since I looked at Illuminas, but IIRC, the adjusters are
on the top, similar to Koni.

Neal

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian McGarvey [mailto:brianm@zbt62.eastnet.gatech.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:16 PM
To: josh Wyte
Cc: Neal Tovsen; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: RE: Shock replacements... Tokiko.. a bit harsh.


You mean that when i hit a big bump its not "normal" for it to try and
flat spin?

I dont think mine are adjustable. but just in case they are where are the
adjusters.. guessing top of the shock/struts...


On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, josh Wyte wrote:

> Ugh, argh, bleah!  Tokico's, spit!  Don't even get me
> started!!
>
> I had 3 complete sets of the adjustable illuminas blow
> out totally in 18 months!!!  I was getting really
> tired of taking apart my suspension, let me tell you!
> To Tokicos credit they warrantied them promptly, but
> after the 3rd set I asked them for my money back,
> thank you very much...
>
> Also, you can't really run the shocks too soft because
> they won't be able to control the spring and the car
> will bound all over the damn place.  I found with
> "sport" springs a decent setting on the street was
> '3'...
>
> -josh
>
>
> --- Neal Tovsen <sixteen.volt@gte.net> wrote:
> > If they are the "race" springs, ditch the Neuspeed
> > first, then see how you like
> > it. Those springs are very hard. Get a good set of
> > H&R springs. On a normal
> > drive, they're very compliant, but they hold the car
> > VERY well in the curves.
> >
> > If they're the 5-way adjustable shocks and not
> > blown, keep the shocks. Tokikos,
> > being adjustable, should be fine for your car if
> > they are still in good
> > shape...just set them soft on the road. Tokikos
> > don't have as good a rep around
> > here as Bilstein or Koni, but they aren't too bad.
> >
> > Neal
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > [mailto:owner-scirocco-l@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of
> > Brian McGarvey
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:04 AM
> > Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > Subject: Shock replacements... Tokiko.. a bit harsh.
> >
> >
> > Hey Ya'll
> > I'm looking to mod the car abit in the future. Right
> > now I have neuspeed
> > springs(dunno what kind, but they are black at least
> > in the front) and
> > tokiko shocks and struts according to the PO. the
> > ride to cincy was the
> > first one and I'm _sure_ the wife will complain
> > about the bouncing. Cause
> > I love the car and it was a bit harsh for me (plenty
> > of advil). What do
> > folks recommend. I want to retain the lowered look,
> > but not the ricey
> > type. Im planning of 15" rims w/ some sort of low
> > profile tire to retain
> > the same OD as stock. suggestions.
> >
> > brian ( in charge :-) )
> > 87 16v -- highly modded resto in progress
> > 81S Duan's new car? maybe...
> > 8? cabby black -- maybe ( does the Cheapass Ron
> > dance... Free!)
> > 			( Getting the brother outta a Honda!)
> > 84 cabby trading for a 4-wheeler (fun in the sun!)
> > 8? cabby ... red.. someday. (getting the wife outta
> > a honda)
> >
> >  On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Geordy
> > Rostad wrote:
> >
> > > Where is the best place to get the idle stabilizer
> > motor for
> > > my '88 16valve Jetta (brand new please) is this a
> > stealership item
> > > or would Mike or Mark have it?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> >
> >
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>
>
> =====
> Josh Wyte
> Momentum Motorsports
> 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST
>
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