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Upper strut bars Rear and Front
- Subject: Upper strut bars Rear and Front
- From: bmcgarvey at gmail.com (Brian McGarvey)
- Date: Fri Jan 12 08:47:19 2007
LEF, etc
Now at least we can talk about CARs.. BTW the mk1 is running and
driving again. I'm having a parts sale soon.. time to BUY MY S#@T....
Here is what I have to say about almost all the available cross braces
that go on the upper portion of our struts or shocks. The are NOT
big/strong enough to make a damn difference. How can I say this.
because Brett, I and the rest of the GRM team have some in ours that
are BIG enough.
Lets us start with the basic concept that the problem is the front
strut tower squish together at the top. If this majority effect the
tiny thing from eurosport or NGP would be enough. But look at the
front of your car with the hood off. Its basically an open top/mostly
open bottom with the struts near a wall. Go grab a cardboard box
(small thin walled structure) and squish it together in the middle
stays together pretty good. no rotate the top even with the bottom
taped shut it still deforms. now put a 1/4" wooden dowel across the
top near the back and tape it in. Now it resists compression better
but rotation is sill an issue.
Now lets move onto our cars.
what happens when you jack one front wheel up say 1-1.5ft in the air.
This is equivalent to a hard corner. Unless you've radically stiffened
the car. the other three corners are closer to the ground. Your car is
basically drooping if it wasn't the other you could do some trig by
measuring how far off the ground to top of the wheel arches are and
predict where it was going to go. Also do your doors open/close nicely
on the ground and in the air.. another indication that box that forms
your car is deforming.
so Just how much does it deform you ask.
Well we installed our roll bar, but didnt bolt it in behind the driver
and passenger seat. when on the ground they were both within 1/4 of
touching the floorboard. The rear section is welded to the rear strut
tower for about 300 degrees around the pipe, cause I cant weld upside
down. When we jacked up the car this way. 3 wheels came COMPLETELY off
the ground from jacking up the FRONT or BACK at one wheel. See pics
from cincy. And the roll bar floormounts in the front behind the
drivers seat was pushing down on the floorboard and the on one side
and 2-3" of clearance on the other side. BTW our roll bar is made out
of 1.5" ERW pipe.. its freaking strong. After Brett bolted it down the
doors can be opened and shut while the car is in the air 18" jacked up
in one corner.
Now mind you we took this to extremes, but please realize the BEST
inmho decrease in body twist .. you know that 3 wheeled stance. is a
hefty rollbar with it welded between rear strut towers, and gusseted.
Next our front cross brace is made out of 1" pipe with a large 1"x2"
mounting tab.. This can probably be improved.
Need proof...
Check it out the mk2 car came in 10th in the auto-x and it ran like crap...
mk2 car going balls out thru the finishing line a right left right curve
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/Mk2Autox/DSC01912
I've got the car completely upset here. see the distortion in the roofline
Coming at the corner at over 50mph hard brake hard RH turn I nearly
went sideways thru the finsh gates
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/Mk2Autox/DSC02023
coming into the long straight in the mk1Zender
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/ZenderAC/DSC02002
No roll bar the mk2 was going FASTER times were about 4-8 seconds faster
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/ZenderAC/DSC02022
Another view of the same corner in the mk1 zender with huge anti-sway
bars The old suspension techniques and the same tires as the mk2
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/ZenderAC/100B1372
Makes you wonder..
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/ZenderAC/DSC02021
mk1 with no bars..
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/SilverMk1AC/DSC01725
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/SilverMk1AC/DSC01670
All the tires are on the ground but the driver is upset..
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/SilverMk1AC/DSC01673
Looks like he's just slowly driving the course..
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/GRM06Race/2006_challenge_autocross_results?full=1
THis is the 10th place finish..
Top place finisher: 43.92
10th place mk2 45.5
41st place mk1 zender 48.7 -- my brothers driving (no auto-x before) or Allyn
mk2 zender mk1 no roll bars 50.4
we were the highest placing GERMAN car. next down the list was 20th a
BMW I believe was supercharged
Look at that tire roll.. they were pumped up to 40+ psi
http://bustedknuckleracing.com/Mk2Autox/DSC01909
He's heel -toeing it here.
Now that I'm going to make every body upset.. Lets go at it. How do
you make a no body twist scirocco that will pass SCCA, NASA specs,
low body twist street scirocco that only requires bolt ons. ---
Drilled holes allowed.
You want to go fast, you need to at least be willing to drill into your car.
Bigmac.. on a rant..
Tired of listen to folks who have only ever bought thier stuff
designed by SOMEBODY else.
<makes I'm Hans and He' Franz pose>
GRRRRR!!!!
Bring it on baby!!!
On 1/11/07, LEF <rocco16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I have one and can't say it's noticeable at all, but I leave it in the car because it's a good place to attach the tool box. :)
> This issue has been explored on this list in the past, and I'm not the only one who felt that the rear bar is for looks only.
> The Scirocco's roof provides all the stiffening in that area that's needed.
>
> larry
> sandiego16v
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tonee Northam
> To: Jim Jarrett
> Cc: the list
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: FS: Rear Eurosport strut bar
>
>
> >From what I've heard it's only noticable on the highway.
>
> Jim Jarrett <jarrett@rpa.net> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Tonee Northam wrote:
>
> If anyone needs one.
>
>
> I've got one, and I'm wondering just exactly how much stability it provides? Do others find it noticable in stiffening up the handling?
>
> =================================================================
> | Jim Jarrett,McFarland, WI 2006 Golf GLS |
> | mailto:jarrett@rpa.net 81 Rabbit Convertible 16v |
> | 88 Scirocco 16V |
> | Any problem can be solved with the proper application of |
> | Force, Heat, Chemicals, or Money. |
> ================================================================
>
>
>
>
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