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Timing the cam - what about the intermediate shaft to crankshaft?

Subject: Timing the cam - what about the intermediate shaft to crankshaft?
From: verboten1 at gmail.com (Verboten1)
Date: Thu Jan 11 13:17:46 2007
In-reply-to: <45A64246.6DBF.0082.1@conestogac.on.ca>
References: <45A549C5020000820000A6E0@CS24.conestogac.on.ca> <000b01c7351f$936fbb60$2f01a8c0@HP52381024421> <45A64246.6DBF.0082.1@conestogac.on.ca>

It is not...it turns a gear for the distributor and oil pump is all.
IIRC it also had a lobe to operate the mechanical fuel pump on carb'd cars


On 1/11/07, Edward Effinger <Eeffinger@conestogac.on.ca> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reply Dan.
> Yes, the motor is a 1.7 8V(sorry for not mentioning that) and all the
> plugs are out.
> The rotor is at #1 at TDC and cam shaft is out only 1 tooth (which I
> shall adjust).
>
> I was wondering if the intermediate shaft is also a balance shaft and
> thus needs
> to be aligned for a smoother running motor?
>
> Thanks
> Ed '81S
>
>
> >>> "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@verizon.net> 1/10/2007 8:26 PM >>>
> The absolute position of the auxilary shaft isn't important at all. As
> long
> as the distributor rotor is centered on the #1 wire in the distributor
> cap
> when the engine is at TDC and the cam timing mark is lined up per the
> Bentley with the top of the inner timing cover. ( this is an 8V
> right??)
>
> Turning the engine by hand is sort of an on-off affair. If you're
> pushing
> into a compression stroke for one of the pistons it'll be hard to turn,
> if
> you push through that quickly it'll tend to pop over center, otherwise
> it
> turns pretty easily.
> If you have doubts you can try two things. Pull all the plugs in which
> case
> it should turn pretty easily at all times although there will be slight
>
> variation in force depending on the piston position. Or you can do a
> compression check.
> Dan
>
> From: "Edward Effinger" <eeffinger@conestogac.on.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Timing the cam - what about the intermediate shaft to
> crankshaft?
>
>
> > Greetings.
> > What a coincidence, I was just in the garage last night after
> deciding
> > the check my cam/dist timing
> > for absolute correctness.  Due to a vibrating motor which also seems
> > slightly difficult to tune, I
> > suspected that all was not in order.
> > After locating tdc, the cam is out 1 tooth, not too serious, but the
> > marks on the intermediate shaft to
> > crankshaft are out approx 80 degrees.
> > The distributor however does point to cylinder one correctly at this
> > setting.
> >
> > Question 1: Does the timing of the intermediate shaft matter at this
> > point, and if so why?
> >
> > Question 2: Also, it seemed to me that the engine did not rotate
> with
> > total even effort when turning
> > with the crankshaft bolt. It took considerable effort to begin to
> turn
> > and then went easily, almost
> > like I was encountering some compression??
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Ed '81 (busy as a squirrel getting ready for spring, I know it should
> be
> > winter)
> >
> >>>> "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@verizon.net> 01/09/07 3:38 PM >>>
> > Couple basic things to check.
> > First take a quick look at cam timing and make sure the cam timing
> mark
> > lines up with the top of the inner cam cover when the engine is at
> TDC,
> > "0" mark on the flywheel. The Bentley has a picture of where to line
> up
> > the cam timing mark.
> > Next while the engine is set in that position make sure the
> distributor
> > rotor is pointing at the plug wire for cylinder #1. It  can possibly
> be
> > pointing at cylinder #4 and the timing would appear to be correct but
> it
> > would be sparking at the wrong cylinder.
> > Next I'd be making sure the cold start injector is squirting. I
> think
> > the test is as easy as pulling the cold start injector, aiming it
> into a
> > jar and cranking the engine. If it doesn't squirt then the things to
> > check are the wiring and the thermotime switch. The engine could all
> be
> > fine and just not starting because it isn't being "primed" with the
> cold
> > start injector. Again, the Bentley is pretty specific on how to test
> the
> > cold start injector and related parts.
> > Also, have you pulled the regular injectors and verified flow from
> them?
> >
> > Also, not to give you a hard time, since it's quite common,
> "cranking"
> > is the engine turning over on the starter. So if you tried to crank
> and
> > the engine didn't actually  turn over then that would be a separate
> set
> > of problem than if the engine turned over, or cranked, fine on the
> > starter but was not starting.
> > I hope that's clear!
> >
> > Also, if the engine cranked, but the speed at which it turned over
> > deteriorated quickly before it could start then that could indicate
> a
> > weak starter, battery or starter cable and ground cable.
> >
> > So, when you jumped it, did the engine not turn over on the starter
> or
> > did it turn over, but not actually fire?
> > HTH.
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > From: "Lexan Blanchard" <lexan_122874@hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:37 PM
> > Subject: Car still won't start :(
> >
> >
> >> Update on starting of the car...  no shock, it still won't start.
> I
> > have
> >> gone down the list of tips, tricks and hints from everyone here.
> Also
> > had a
> >> friend, who knows German cars, help.  Still nothing.  We have good
> gas
> > and
> >> good gas flow.  We have good spark.  Replaced coil and ignition
> > module.  Set
> >> timing.  Put in brand new battery this morning, and tried to crank.
> > It
> >> sounded like it was almost ready to turn over and then it seemed to
> > just not
> >> have enough juice.  Tried jumping it also, and that didn't work
> > either.
> >> Ideas?  I have to admit, I am becoming a little frustrated (insert
> a
> > few
> >> choice curse words).  The only thing I can think of that can be
> > stopping the
> >> start-ability now is some kind of wiring issue.  But before I began
> > pulling
> >> wires and trying to read a wiring diagram, I wanted to get opinions
> of
> > those
> >> who know the best!
> >>
> >> Thanks for the help!!!
> >> Lexan
> >> '82 8V  <--this car MUST run and be safely drivable for Cincy!!!
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live
> > Messenger! Get
> >> it now
> >>
> >
>
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
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Follow-Ups:
- Timing the cam - what about the intermediate shaft to crankshaft?
  - From: Eeffinger at conestogac.on.ca (Edward Effinger)

References:
- Timing the cam - what about the intermediate shaft to crankshaft?
  - From: eeffinger at conestogac.on.ca (Edward Effinger)
- Timing the cam - what about the intermediate shaft to crankshaft?
  - From: jdbubb at verizon.net (Dan Bubb)
- Timing the cam - what about the intermediate shaft to crankshaft?
  - From: Eeffinger at conestogac.on.ca (Edward Effinger)

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