lowering?

[peter at thescirocco.com (Peter)]

I thought it was finally over.

 

Cutting the stock springs that came with the car is totally different, than
using stock springs from a heavier car, and reducing the number of coils to
increase the spring rate and level the car.

 

Here's a good calculator for figuring out spring rates, 2nd one down:

http://www.iroczone.com/calcs/chassis.htm

 

My current setup:

 

'81 Scirocco EN FF Neuspeed sport springs with Bilsteins

'79 Scirocco 16V PL 4K Neuspeed sport springs with Bilsteins

'84 Rabbit GTI JH 4K "Rollbar" Neuspeed sport springs with Bilsteins - Daily
driver 2

'83 Rabbit GTI 2L 3A Neuspeed sport springs with Bilsteins

'83 Rabbit GTI "Caged Rabbit" JH 9A 16V Scirocco springs -1 coil in front,
Bilsteins - Daily driver 3

'83 Rabbit Pickup, JH FO, 16V Scirocco springs -1 coil in front w/Bilsteins
- KYB Gasadjusts

Daily driver '99 Jeep TJ 4L 5 spd, stock suspension, getting Bilsteins soon,
Hypertech'd

 

Peter

 

  _____  

From: Lance LaPrarie [mailto:sciroccojunky@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 3:35 PM
To: Peter
Cc: Dan Bubb; scirocco list
Subject: Re: lowering?

 

I had to put my two cents in. Cutting springs is always the cheap way out.
Spending time doing some research on what is good and what works. Ghetto
spring cutting is never a good thing. You're pretty much always sacrificing
something. Also a personal piece of advice. When doing suspension you should
go through and make sure that all bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends,
etc..... are all up to date and working properly. I bought a H&R cup kit and
had it installed. Thought that my ride would be like new when I had them
installed. Well, brand new shocks and springs rode like crap. I thought it
was the cup kit. Well, after spending a ton of dough fixing some deferred
maintenance it rides like new. My steering rack was leaking and really loose
working. Got all suspension components replaced with new and some new sway
bars. My car rides about as good as my M3. Steering is like new. Also don't
forget the strut bearings. 

 

urethane bushings rock. Don't use them for motor mounts unless your racing
and gutting the interior tho. I just made that mistake. Doh!! Vibrates like
hell. They warned me it would vibrate but didn't think it would much more
than normal. I was wrong. 

 

Anyway, that's my two cents. Happy Holidays........!!

 

On 12/23/06, Peter <peter@thescirocco.com> wrote: 

16V Scirocco rear springs are the same way, the spring wire is tapered, and
the closely spaced top and bottom coils are compressed. Progressively ground

springs, is another way of obtaining a progressive ride, and is usually only
found in stock rear springs.
I've replaced a lot of stock Volkswagen suspensions, and all A1 rear springs
are like that.
The only time stock rear springs are not binding, is when the car is in the 
air, or if the strut assembly is removed.

I installed another 16V Scirocco front spring set minus 1 coil on my '83 VW
Pickup, and it matches the rear leaf spring rate better, than the stock
springs.

Peter



-----Original Message-----

I don't want to be non-PC, but fuck this "Dan's error" bullshit!
On my 84, that I bought brand new from the dealer, the rear springs were not


only progressively wound, but the spring material was also tapered.  I have
no use for stock springs so I don't have any around to measure, but the end
coils were easily under 3/8" and were "dead" coils. 
Maybe the 16V's have non-tapered spring wire or a non-progressive wind
although I doubt it.
Maybe your car had its springs changed before you bought it.
Since I cut the coils on my 84 about 15 years ago and realized how it 
changed the handling balance it's always been way easier to just buy
aftermarket springs so I haven't been paying much attention to stock
springs.
I can guaran-fucking-tee that the next time I see a 16V with stock springs 
I'll verify your "zero coils binding" claim.

All that bullshit aside, I want to make one point.
If you cut your coils you will make the springs stiffer if you're cutting
active coils.
It's damn unlikely that you will change the spring rates the same proportion

front to rear.
To that extent you've changed the front to rear roll stiffness distribution
and that will change the handling balance. 
Changing anti-sway bars on only one end of the car has the same result, yet
I've seen a lot of people say you should remove the front anti-sway bar and
only one person fess up to backing their car into the bushes as a result. 

I get a constant kick out of the Vortex "it handled great".
The simple fact is you're not driving hard enough to notice the difference
or you haven't hit that emergency situation that gave you just enough time 
to think how you fucked your car's handling before you lost control.
If you're going to make changes like this at least have the sense to test
your changes (AT THE LIMIT!! to mimic an emergency situation) in a scenario 
where you don't hurt you or anybody else.
Dan



From: "LEF" <rocco16@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: lowering? 


Sure seems like it should.  All I can say is that, while some coils show the

same indication of coil-bind(clean, bare lines where the coils have come
together at full suspension jounce), a static-state condition produces no 
coil-bind on my stock springs.

I pointed this out, not to emphasize Dan's error, but as a way of saying
to the listers who might take everything they see on this list as gospel,
"That's not always true; and here's why I say that."   Ofttimes, I don't 
couch my comments in ways that are PC.  You all should be used to that by
now.....and realize that it's not a personal attack.

larry
sandiego16v
   Seems like the end of a MkII
should be enough weight to make create that situation. 
_______________________________________________
Scirocco-l mailing list
Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l 




_______________________________________________
Scirocco-l mailing list
Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l



_______________________________________________
Scirocco-l mailing list
Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l