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50mm info; Now Cam Specs?
TT Euro Cam is:
207 duration @ 0.50" and .379" lift
The US and Euro Exhaust are the same.
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:29:02 -0400, Rick Kellner <rfkellner@snet.net> wrote:
> Cathy, thank you for the info! Very helpful.
>
> I do plan on using a 'euro' intake cam however; you have introduced the
> question which euro intake cam. From your description below it appears
> as if there were two versions of the 'euro' intake cam.
>
> Do you (or anyone) know the spces for the more aggressive euro cam?
>
> BWT, I have a euro Delta regrind with the following specs quoted from
> Delta.
>
> "The stock cam (US) is 192 duration @ .050 with .354 lift. The modified
> cam is 222 duration @ .050 with .405 lift. The cost for this upgrade is
> $125 on your core."
>
> As a side note it is my understanding that the exhaust cams were the
> same in U.S. and Europe.
>
> Thanks, Rick K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
> [mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of C Boyko
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:59 AM
> To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: 50mm info (mainly for Rick K)
>
> Well, I thought I'd post this to the list since others may find it
> interesting.
>
> >From a note to the list, regarding 16Vs intake manifolds. It should be
> in
> the archives, it was originally posted Sept 06/01, but I'm just
> retyping
> it. (Excuse the typos!) The original thread was about a 1989 16V I'd
> seen
> in Toronto which clearly looked to have the TB/airbox etc. FACTORY
> installed on the passenger's side, as you'd expect in a Golf/Jetta, and
> yes, we had them in '89 in Canada.
>
> >From Dirk:
> European 16V:
> The Scirocco 16V always had the intakes on the drivers side until its
> very
> end in 1992. There are no exceptions.
>
> The 50mm intakes were only sold on SOME KR-engines from 1986-1988.
> Most KR engines (and all 1985 ones) came with the small 40mm intake.
>
> The 50mm manifold was introduced by VW in 1986 because they had problems
> to reach the claimed 139hp with the small manifold. There was a strong
> public (motor press) interest in that topic VW blamed to cheat the
> customers with wrong figures and they had to react. So they introduced
> the
> 50mm manifold.
>
> When catalytic converters became mandatory in Germany in the late 80's
> VW
> had to change the cams of the 16V to a more moderate version to protect
> the cat from getting too much unburnt fuel. That is the main difference
> from the PL to the earlier KR engine. Due to the more moderate intake
> cam,
> the 50mm intake was rather useless and even had a loss of torque at
> lower
> RPM. So it was replaced again by the smaller 40mm intake. The max. HP
> figure of the PL engine was corrected down from 139 PS to 129 PS then.
> Conclusion: When using a 50mm intake on a PL enginee it's strongly
> recommended to change the intake cam to at least a KR timing version.
>
> 1) All Sciroccos with catalytic converter came with the PL engine here
> 2) All Sciroccos with PL engine had the small 40mm manifold.
>
> For this reason, the 50mm intakes are also a rare and wanted item in
> Germany.
>
> Greets, Dirk, 16V KR ;-))
>
> Okay, so there you have it, essentially what Allyn already said with
> some
> history. Looks like 10hp from a mild cam, the intake, and no cat. I'd
> guess with a 2L and a more aggressive cam, there would be more benefits/
> less down sides. I don't have any low end concerns with my 50mm on a 2L
> with a Euro cam, but can't say what it would have been like with the
> 40mm
> intake, cause it all went on together.
>
> Also, it should warn you to check out exactly what you're getting if you
> get a European cam (could be our PL version) or a KR intake (could be a
> 40mm)
>
> Now, the other 50mm trivia I picked up on the way was from European Car,
> Nov 2000. I copied the article since they had done a bunch of cam
> comparisons on a 2.0L/1.8 head 16V, (about a dozen combos), with other
> goodies in the mix. In the text, they mention that going from the 50mm
> to
> the stock intake results in a drop of "a whopping 14 hp", but if you
> read
> carefully, they also bolted the stock exhaust back on in place of the
> headers and other exhaust goodness. So who knows how much is from what,
> and they didn't say which cams were in when they got the drop,
> presumably
> the ones with the highest output on the dyno. They make reference to a
> dyno for the intakes, but there isn't one printed with the article.
>
> But in 2000, I was impressed to still see comparisons done on our
> engines,
> given that the 1.8T was still quite new and tempting to focus on.
>
> So there you go, no big tales of disaster this time. A 50mm intake is
> pricey, but at some point you go from cheap thrills to determining how
> much gain is worth how much money I guess.
>
> Cathy
> 1987 2L 16V Scirocco - the Silver Headache
> 1979 1.8L 10:1 8V - Klaus- sounds like half a Chevelle plus a Weedeater
> "Misery loves company" (Old Proverb)
>
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--
Don Walter - Waukesha, WI
1986 1.8 16V Black Scirocco
1986 2L 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (under repair)
1988 1.8 16V Toronado Red Scirocco (sold on 3/29/04)
1984 1.8 8V Pewter Scirocco (sold years ago)
1971 Karman Ghia (sold)
1969 Karman Ghia (sold)
1969 Beetle (sold)