EFI swap information / opinions

[rfkellner at snet.net (Rick Kellner)]

Has anyone used MSD components for a fuel rail for a 16V (see link
below)?  They have rail tubing and rail fuel delivery mount.  The mounts
slide over the tubing to line up with the injectors.  The mounts are
then brazed in place.

Comments?

http://www.msdignition.com/

Click on the 'MSD Fuel Management', left column.

Thanks, Rick.

-----Original Message-----
From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
[mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Brian
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:04 PM
To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Subject: EFI swap information / opinions 

I feel I should probably make up for yelling at people.  So is a little 
information on what is entailed in a swap. I'll be happy to answer 
questions. 

The basic breakdown is for NATURALLY aspirated vw 4clyns weighted toward

16v's.

So here's the basic rundown. 
Any CIS-* car has the basic problem of a "frying pan" choking the
intake, 
200 whp is doable, but you need to apply plenty of money. 150whp is easy

and you dont have to change anything in the CIS-* fueling system to get 
there Just  cams, Tbody, exhaust, 
poof your there. And you can even tune it to the bently spec. that you
can 
buy at www.parts4vws.com <plug for a sponsor>. 

<plug for sponsor>
www.deltacam.com is a great place for cams, and it keeps the cost down 
too. you should expect to pay about $200 for a set of regrinds. 

The throttle body get one off a audi 5k, they are bigger ie. more air in
a 
CIS-* car == more fuel == more HP.


*
So now you've decided you want technology from this decade. EFI sounds 
like the way to go. Do you go with a stock VW system or an aftermarket.

If you compare the cost of a DIY style(MS,VEMS vs. Motronic, Digi1) etc.

its about the same, but commercial Standalones your ticket to start 
playing is about 1500 - 2000 bucks for the electronics. you havent
broken 
into the physical stuff yet. 

Guess on costs
Commercial standalone     8v  (1800 + shop time)
			  16v (2000 + shop time)

DIY -- style
Stock VW/Audi conversion  8v  (400 + your time)
			  16v (600 + your time)

Megasquirt conversion  	  8v  (400 + your time)
			  16v (600 + your time)

VEMS conversion		  8v  (500 + your time )
			  16v (700 + your time )


* A little information about Megasquirt and VEMS

Megasquirt -- 
Looked into it decided on something else that could do spark too.

So what is a Megasquirt going to cost you, well I dont actually know you

should ask a lister who has one running, but 
For a current MS conversion your left with the problem of not being able

to change your spark curve without a second box. The flyback ckt and
otherstuff you 
dont really need as im assuming your not going for a forced induction
very 
high HP car. The box has to be kept in the passenger compartment as it
is 
not designed to be in a harsh environment -- if you follow thier 
instructions. 


VEMS -- 

<The GRM car uses this>
I do know you can buy a similarly partially assembled ready to program 
VEMS board here for $226 + shipping. You'll need more parts. 
http://shop.x-dsl.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=29
or you can buy a ready to go version for $538 here.
http://shop.x-dsl.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=48


Look up GrmRacer on the VEMS page alot information of this is there.
http://www.vems-group.org/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGrmRacer
the circuits for v2.2 
http://www.vems-group.org/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGrmRacer%2FGrmCir
cuits


*************************************************************
Checklist for conversions first draft

** Items required for any standalone EFI conversion for a CIS-* car
	TPS on a throttle body
	vac port for map sensor
	new intake/air filter
	Air Temp sensor or MAF (mechanical or electrica) system
dependent
	Coolant temp sensor to replace thermotime switch
	Fuel Rail
	Fuel Pressure Regulator
	Mounting bracket for Fuel filter
	Braided hose for fuel line to hook into your system.
		I recommend quick connects, The ford ones are great.
	Dyno time for tuning
	By just ditching the CIS, you should gain ~25HP, poorly tuned.
	Connect up TP, FP, & O2 heater relay (single wire)
	A method to trigger the EFI
	Dont mess with the coolant fan bit yours works already off the 
		Temp fan switch.

Megasquirt convrsion
	Megasquirt can trigger off the Tach output, just hook to the 
		side of the coil that feeds the tach it will 
		be a little noisy  but will still work
	replace the thermotime switch with the GM sensor (Metric vs.
SAE)
	WBO2 box. Makes the car actually tunable.
	Laptop required

VEMS conversion
	Hooks directly up to the Hall output of the Distributor
		to drive spark & fuel
	Already does Ignition 
	Already does Knock
	Already does EGT
	Circuit diagrams already avail on VEMS site for v2.2 v3.0 coming
	Does Nitrous if you want it
	Drives WB02 ( the VW one its cheap $29.00) cheaper than the
3wire
	I have fuel and spark maps available and will be avail by email
	A full on conversion kit (various stages of completion) will be
		available fairly soon ie. less than 6 mo.



Thats all for now. 	
Brian


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