ATS REPLIES...REAL LONG !!! was: ATS and his site and his herdgone???

[amalventano at sc.rr.com (Allyn)]

> You know your amusing at times Allyn, the said Junker cars that I spend 
> 800$
> of my money to buy...

ok, i agree that on this point i was not as informed as others may have 
been. i didnt realize the condition of the cars, nor the fact that you had 
parted many of them already. it was the combo of the cars and the site and 
the vortex sig change and the fact that you continued to post on the list 
throughout that day as if nothing had happened - all of that just did not 
sit well. also realize that my first post would have never happened if it 
wasnt for other listers approaching me on the matter (perhaps they think i'm 
one of the few who will butt heads with you on the subject, or perhaps they 
know i am one of the 'keep the rocco info out there' figureheads, who 
knows).

> Amusing indeed to assume you know my life, my actions and blatantly decide
> that my new actions are to be reprimanded by you. Get a grip Allyn. You 
> are
> not God of scirocco, nor even god of this list.

ok patrick, its getting old now. i've clearly stated several times that i am 
looking out for the rest of the list. that is not just my responsibility, 
its the responsibility of anyone who cares about the maintenance of the 
'well being' of this list, and wants to keep that spirit alive. i've already 
got several private emails from listers, thanking me for having the balls to 
make my original post (regarding the 'ip' thing specifically).

> Heck by your admission you have not even read/viewed my tech notes, and
> should automatically disqualify you from making ANY comments.

i know they exist, as you have directed people to them many times in the 
past. after all of this started, i looked over an archived mirror of them, 
and there appears to be some good info there, and i can easily see how they 
could be very useful to others.

> You ask me to listen to myself in your post. You do actually realize you
> just stated that;
>
> a) I can do what ever I want with my property.

sure did

> b) State I am undermining , through my actions (i.e. getting rids of 
> rotten,
> rusted chassis) will affect ANYONE on this list...

not that everyone knew the conditions of those cars before it happened

> So please spare me the rhetoric's of you must save the Scirocco's from the
> scrap yards.

not 'me', the list as a whole

> The content of my web site is actually work based, on my car, not on yours
> or anyone else's sorry you are completely wrong in your assumption I owe 
> you
> (not that you ever care to read any of them as you mention) or anyone else
> anything, if my hobby has provided informative and support, then I am 
> happy
> it helped another owner of these cars.

sorry man, i call your bluff. you posted those tech notes to the web (read: 
public), and you frequently referenced those tech notes in list postings. 
had it actually been such super-secret information, we would have never knew 
it existed, now would we.

> I did not want to GIVE to the community; I built a web site, so?

- again, making the site public, maintaining its hosting, and referencing 
said site over and over in list postings totally nullifies your claim. also, 
that statement once again backs up my original post - you are basically 
telling the list to go f___ themselves. in my mind i read it as "its my info 
and i'll do what i want with it". now dont get me wrong patrick, you are 
well within your rights to do it, but you had better realize that when you 
say such things / take such actions, there will be listers who think you are 
an asshole for acting that way. just because i'm one of the few that are 
willing to stand up and put you in your place doesnt make me 'god' or 'ruler 
of the list' - it just makes me the guy who stood up and called you a prick. 
nothing more. nothing less.

> That many found answers in my hobby web site, great! I am happy to have
> indirectly helped someone to work on their car.

agreed, but you still try to make it sound like your site had nothing to do 
with 'giving back'. you use "indirectly", as if people found your site by 
accident. this is not the case. you built the site _and_ referenced those 
tech notes in list postings, directing people to them.

> But if they really cared to learn how to repair and restore their car, 
> they
> should buy a Bentley, read it, instead of looking for answers on my web
> site, they would learn what the cars are about, instead of repeating
> questions, not searching answer on .org archives, but demand them over and
> over on the vortex and this list.

please tell me, why was there such a following towards your tech note site 
if that info is so readily available? the sheer demand (re: vortex thread) 
that appeared the very same day that the site vanished is proof of that. 
tech notes generally go way above what is available in any service manual. i 
am sure you knew this, and it was likely part of the reason you made them in 
the first place (i simply dont buy that 'work only' claim, sorry)....

its now known that the roccos you dumped were in fact dump-worthy. i'm glad 
it went that way, and i apologize for not knowing the facts on that point 
prior to my post. you obviously do want to keep these cars alive and have 
worked towards that end. now lets imagine the consequences of playing 'mine 
mine' with the tech notes:
- others who might have used those notes to keep their rocco on the road for 
longer - now cannot
- others who might have been educated by those notes to keep several friends 
roccos on the road for longer - now cannot

you know what, im done here. if you are so narrow minded that you are unable 
to grasp that you have left some of the listers scratching their heads, 
wondering "whats this guys deal" - so be it. face it - you pissed some 
people off with your actions. i just happened to be the one who called you 
on it. other listers agree with me (proof in several emails direct to me 
even today). what will it take for you to realize that every time you pull 
the "its MY website" thing, you piss off each and every lister who has 
helped any other lister (yourself included) in the past. despite your own 
opinion on the matter, i assure you that you DID NOT arrive on this list 5 
years ago knowing all there was to know about roccos. you gained knowledge 
from this list, just as i have. if you apply that knowledge to your own 
project (tech notes), and then make them available to the list (public web 
site), the responsible thing to do would have been to at least leave the 
things up and give some kind of warning that they were going away. you had 
to actually log onto the site and delete the tech notes - and did it with no 
warning. i would expect such an action after someone personally screwing you 
over or something. you know, kinda like "i'll show those bastards, here let 
me delete the site, that will show them". unless i missed a totally 
different post, you werent screwed over by anyone here, so that naturally 
leads me (and others) into thinking you are simply back-dooring the list as 
a whole.

the scirocco list has always appeared to be about 'giving'. i firmly believe 
that is what keeps it so alive. the 'its mine' attitude is the reason that 
many other mailing lists on the net suck so badly. i personally dont want to 
see this list go to crap because of people pulling this garbage, and it 
sores me every time i watch it happen.

you know what patrick, its people like you who make people like me NOT want 
to help others out on this list.

p.s. i dont plan on responding further. if you want to continue to piss on 
the rest of the list with your 'IP tirade', please feel free to respond.

despite current events, still a happy rocco lister
Al