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Knock Sensor Conversion - Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and Iamdisappointed, sorta...
Really the CIS and KS share no wiring or functionality (unless you add the
WOT switch relay we've been talking about, then they share a little wiring).
So, yes, you keep all the CIS stuff as is.
Your list seems complete to me.
BTW, I have a KS ignition that I took off my car when I installed the
Haltech. I may have used some of the wiring parts for the Haltech install so
I'd have to check and see if that is intact. Also, I used the distributor
with the Haltech.
So, I have:
KS ecu
Knock sensor
TB with both KS switches and the CIS WOT switch (with extra heavy duty
bracket).
Maybe the wiring harness.
If you're interested LMK
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Calderwood" <robcalderwood1@charter.net>
To: "_Scirocco Mailing List" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:55 PM
Subject: Knock Sensor Conversion - Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I
amdisappointed, sorta...
> Hi guys, I have been reading this discussion with great interest since I
> have an ABA swap in the works for my '85 8V Scirocco. I am keeping my JH
> head and plan on converting to KS ignition. I purchased the conversion
parts
> for plugging the extra holes in the block and the distributor gear from
TT,
> but have not bought the KS parts yet. I have looked around the web
including
> the DriversFound site, but I am not totally clear on all the parts I need:
>
> CIS-E distributor
> Knock Senor
> KS Control Unit
> Wiring
> TB Switch
>
> I think I keep my old CIS control box, but not sure.
> Any other sources on this subject?
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "Mike Potter" <Potterman@parts4vws.com>; "Patrick Bureau"
> <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
<scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
>
>
> > Back in the day when I had CIS I just set the CIS WOT switch right on
top
> of
> > the KS WOT switch. Maybe a dumb way to do it but it worked.
> > Strangely enough the weight of that additional little switch was enough
to
> > break the switch bracket several times before I welded a 1/4" thick bar
> > across it. It was ugly! Big old heavy bracket and a bunch of switch
wires.
> > Dan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Potter" <Potterman@parts4vws.com>
> > To: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>; "Patrick Bureau"
> > <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:56 AM
> > Subject: RE: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> >
> >
> > > Dan, I was going to suggest the same thing. That's how mine is wired.
> Got
> > > to do it as the CIS-E Switches send a positive signal but the older
> Lamda
> > > control units need a ground to go WOT. Switch the current(via relay) &
> > your
> > > in biz!
> > >
> > > Patrick, If I had a head or $800 to spare I'd hand it over....If you
> have
> > > one in the works it will help out. Those motors need it to breathe.
> Still
> > > that thing it a torque monster! 118lbs of torque!...my 1.8 8v is only
> > > getting 111.
> > >
> > > Good luck...
> > >
> > > ****When replying please copy in any original text that we have been
> > > previously discussing, Thank you!***
> > > Mike Potter
> > > Virtual World Parts Inc.
> > > Sales@parts4vws.com
> > > 909-694-8600x103
> > > 888-389-7278x103
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org
> > > [mailto:scirocco-l-bounces@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Dan Bubb
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:27 AM
> > > To: Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, they aren't used by the KS ignition, but the CIS ecu still needs
> > them.
> > > Do me a huge favor.
> > > Splice into the voilet wire that runs from the KS WOT switch to pin 8
on
> > the
> > > KS ecu. This wire should have 12V when the switch is tripped. Run the
> wire
> > > from the splice to a small relay. Connect it to the relay coil. Ground
> the
> > > other side of the relay coil. Now take the two wires that used to go
to
> > the
> > > old WOT switch and connect them to the two contacts on the relay that
> are
> > > shorted when the relay is activated.
> > > shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes to rig this up for a quick
test.
> > > Or better yet, just take the two wires that used to go to the old WOT
> > > switch. Short them together. With the engine idling the idle should
> > improve
> > > slightly when they are shorted. Anyway, short them together and go for
a
> > > test drive and see if the engine has more power.
> > > If that works rig up the relay.
> > > LMK
> > > Dan
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Patrick Bureau
> > > To: Dan Bubb ; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:10 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > >
> > >
> > > no where.
> > > patched and laying in tray, I assumed these whe no longer used by
the
> > ecu
> > >
> > > Dan Bubb <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > OK. That addresses the KS ignition switches.
> > > What about the wires that went to the WOT switch that was on your
> car
> > > before
> > > you swapped to the Audi 5000 throttle body?
> > > Where are they connected?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Patrick Bureau"
> > > To: "Dan Bubb" ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:55 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > >
> > >
> > > > I used this diagram install the knock box and switches to my car
> > > >
> > > htm>
> > > >
> > > > Dan Bubb wrote:
> > > > So, Patrick!
> > > > What exactly did you do with the wires that ran to the CIS WOT
> > switch
> > > when
> > > > you did your conversion and added the KS ignition?
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "ATS - Patrick Bureau"
> > > > To: "Dan Bubb" ; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:13 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Mr Potter : headwork... yes I know... got 800$ to spare ? hehe
I
> > am
> > > > working
> > > > > on saving the cash for a full blow reworked head (ie: racing
> > specs)
> > > > >
> > > > > Dan: as always Appreciate your inputs (even if we diagree
about
> > that
> > > > 8v/16v
> > > > > thing eheh)
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. the TB is audi5000, I use CIS-Lambda with 16v Knock
> sensor/box,
> > > and
> > > > this
> > > > > included the 16v TB switches setup (2 switches),you may be on
to
> > > somthing
> > > > > about the fuel mix, (It hink it may be fuel pressure and wil
> check
> > > that
> > > > > soon), but enrichment switch.. humm. wil have to test the
> switches
> > > to
> > > see
> > > > if
> > > > > one failed on me. good point
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. the fuel/air mix is not 15:1 , but close (14.8:1 average)
and
> I
> > > see
> > > > your
> > > > > point.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I am working on geting a head reworked, as for springs, if
I
> > did
> > > go
> > > > > 268-272 cam would I need to change for HD ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > > MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
> > > > > ICQ:32918816 |AIM:Texasscirocco
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > =>-----Original Message-----
> > > > > =>From: Dan Bubb [mailto:jdbubb@ix.netcom.com]
> > > > > =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:18 PM
> > > > > =>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > > =>Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed,
sorta...
> > > > > =>
> > > > > =>
> > > > > =>Personally, I thought you'd be 115-118 HP so this is a
> suprise!
> > > > > =>There's really no way to compare my engine to yours because
of
> > > > > =>the Haltech,
> > > > > =>but I still have some input (don't I always!)
> > > > > =>A week ago I was going to suggest you include A/F ratio in
> your
> > > > > =>runs, but I
> > > > > =>see you have. There's a huge clue right there! Dead on 15:1
> > across
> > > the
> > > > > =>board! CIS is awesome it can hold stoichometric so
accurately!
> > > > > =>Now, (this is Dan the Parent!) how many times did I give
input
> > on
> > > > > =>setting up
> > > > > =>your CIS WOT switch???? If you're running at 15:1 then your
> > switch
> > > isn't
> > > > > =>triggering or there is some problem with the wiring or
> > something.
> > > Your
> > > > > =>engine is constantly running closed loop. With the switch
it'd
> > go
> > > > > =>open loop
> > > > > =>and drop to mid 13:1 (I presume). Now we talked briefly
about
> > > > > =>this at Cincy,
> > > > > =>but the KS ignition WOT switch is not the CIS WOT switch and
> as
> > > far as
> > > I
> > > > > =>know they don't have any interconnection, but whatever, your
> CIS
> > > > > =>WOT switch
> > > > > =>is clearly not working or connected.
> > > > > =>So, step one is get the frigging WOT switch wired and
working.
> I
> > > > > =>bet that'd
> > > > > =>give you 5-10 HP right there.
> > > > > =>The next items that come to mind are:
> > > > > =>1) head, the stock GTI head just isn't that high flow. You
> need
> > a
> > > ported
> > > > > =>head to start making big power with the 8V (one friggen
smart
> > > > > =>crack from the
> > > > > =>16V guys! Just one!). Not sure if a cam will do much without
> the
> > > > > =>head work.
> > > > > =>My recollection (this is Dan the old fart speaking) when I
was
> > > running
> > > a
> > > > > =>stock head going to a bigger cam with the 2.0 just gutted
the
> > > bottom
> > > end
> > > > > =>without adding anything to the top. I have no objective data
> and
> > > the
> > > > butt
> > > > > =>dyno is a notorious lier, so take that as you wish.
> > > > > =>2) cam. The G grind is a good mild cam. You want an 8V to
make
> > > power
> > > you
> > > > > =>need something that'll make your idle good and lumpy. 272,
> 280!
> > > > > =>They do hurt
> > > > > =>the bottom end, but the 2.0 can loose some bottom end and
> still
> > > have
> > > > > =>terrific off the line acceleration.
> > > > > =>3)why the hell are you running a 16V KS box? A 16V isn't an
8V
> > and
> > > the
> > > > > =>ignition curve is undoubtedly different. Despite your mods I
> > think
> > > you
> > > > > =>should be running an 8V KS box. Just my opinion.
> > > > > =>My exhaust, flywheel, fuel pumps, CR are the substantially
the
> > > > > =>same as yours
> > > > > =>and they support alot more HP so those aren't a big issue
for
> > > upgrade.
> > > > > =>Maybe I'll think of more later.
> > > > > =>I bet you could work out the CIS WOT switch before you go to
> > work
> > > > > =>tomorrow.
> > > > > =>There's a noticable difference!
> > > > > =>HTH!
> > > > > =>Dan
> > > > > =>
> > > > > =>
> > > > > =>
> > > > > =>----- Original Message -----
> > > > > =>From: ATS - Patrick Bureau
> > > > > =>To: _Scirocco Mailing List
> > > > > =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:01 PM
> > > > > =>Subject: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> > > > > =>
> > > > > =>
> > > > > =>> alright after all my work here is the results I got for my
> > > 8v....
> > > > > =>>
> > > > > =>> Best run 97.9HP @ 5200 RPM with 118.9 ft torque @ 3100
RPM,
> > > dwell
> > > set
> > > > at
> > > > > =>60'
> > > > > =>> and timing at 14' idle, 28' @ 3000 rpm.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> > > '85 2.0L Prowler Orange, Kamei X1 Rocco
> > > '84 1.8L Silver Restoration and '83 Rocco Trailer Project
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
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