[TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...

[jdbubb at ix.netcom.com (Dan Bubb)]

So, Patrick!
What exactly did you do with the wires that ran to the CIS WOT switch when
you did your conversion and added the KS ignition?
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "ATS - Patrick Bureau" <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>; "_Scirocco Mailing List"
<scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: RE: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...


> Mr Potter : headwork... yes I know... got 800$ to spare ? hehe I am
working
> on saving the cash for a full blow reworked head (ie: racing specs)
>
> Dan: as always Appreciate your inputs (even if we diagree about that
8v/16v
> thing eheh)
>
> 1. the TB is audi5000, I use CIS-Lambda with 16v Knock sensor/box, and
this
> included the 16v TB switches setup (2 switches),you may be on to somthing
> about the fuel mix, (It hink it may be fuel pressure and wil check that
> soon), but enrichment switch.. humm. wil have to test the switches to see
if
> one failed on me. good point
>
> 2. the fuel/air mix is not 15:1 , but close (14.8:1 average) and I see
your
> point.
>
> 3. I am working on geting a head reworked, as for springs, if I did go
> 268-272 cam would I need to change for HD ?
>
>
> ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> ----------------------------------------------
> MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
> ICQ:32918816           |AIM:Texasscirocco
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
> =>-----Original Message-----
> =>From: Dan Bubb [mailto:jdbubb@ix.netcom.com]
> =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:18 PM
> =>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
> =>Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> =>
> =>
> =>Personally, I thought you'd be 115-118 HP so this is a suprise!
> =>There's really no way to compare my engine to yours because of
> =>the Haltech,
> =>but I still have some input (don't I always!)
> =>A week ago I was going to suggest you include A/F ratio in your
> =>runs, but I
> =>see you have. There's a huge clue right there! Dead on 15:1 across the
> =>board! CIS is awesome it can hold stoichometric so accurately!
> =>Now, (this is Dan the Parent!) how many times did I give input on
> =>setting up
> =>your CIS WOT switch???? If you're running at 15:1 then your switch isn't
> =>triggering or there is some problem with the wiring or something. Your
> =>engine is constantly running closed loop. With the switch it'd go
> =>open loop
> =>and drop to mid 13:1 (I presume). Now we talked briefly about
> =>this at Cincy,
> =>but the KS ignition WOT switch is not the CIS WOT switch and as far as I
> =>know they don't have any interconnection, but whatever, your CIS
> =>WOT switch
> =>is clearly not working or connected.
> =>So, step one is get the frigging WOT switch wired and working. I
> =>bet that'd
> =>give you 5-10 HP right there.
> =>The next items that come to mind are:
> =>1) head, the stock GTI head just isn't that high flow. You need a ported
> =>head to start making big power with the 8V (one friggen smart
> =>crack from the
> =>16V guys! Just one!). Not sure if a cam will do much without the
> =>head work.
> =>My recollection (this is Dan the old fart speaking) when I was running a
> =>stock head going to a bigger cam with the 2.0 just gutted the bottom end
> =>without adding anything to the top. I have no objective data and the
butt
> =>dyno is a notorious lier, so take that as you wish.
> =>2) cam. The G grind is a good mild cam. You want an 8V to make power you
> =>need something that'll make your idle good and lumpy. 272, 280!
> =>They do hurt
> =>the bottom end, but the 2.0 can loose some bottom end and still have
> =>terrific off the line acceleration.
> =>3)why the hell are you running a 16V KS box? A 16V isn't an 8V and the
> =>ignition curve is undoubtedly different. Despite your mods I think you
> =>should be running an 8V KS box. Just my opinion.
> =>My exhaust, flywheel, fuel pumps, CR are the substantially the
> =>same as yours
> =>and they support alot more HP so those aren't a big issue for upgrade.
> =>Maybe I'll think of more later.
> =>I bet you could work out the CIS WOT switch before you go to work
> =>tomorrow.
> =>There's a noticable difference!
> =>HTH!
> =>Dan
> =>
> =>
> =>
> =>----- Original Message -----
> =>From: ATS - Patrick Bureau <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>
> =>To: _Scirocco Mailing List <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> =>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:01 PM
> =>Subject: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
> =>
> =>
> =>> alright after all my work here is the results I got for my 8v....
> =>>
> =>> Best run 97.9HP @ 5200 RPM with 118.9 ft torque @ 3100 RPM, dwell set
at
> =>60'
> =>> and timing at 14' idle, 28' @ 3000 rpm.
> =>> Worst paladin7run 93.9HP @5200 RPM with 116.3FT torque @ 2800 RPM,
dwell
> =>set
> =>> at 45' and timing at 8' idle, 23' @ 3000 rpm.
> =>>
> =>> Now I will list my mods to the engine so we can compare apples
> =>with apples
> =>> and maybe someone can post me their setup and I can figure out
> =>where I am
> =>> loosing/needing to concentrate my next series of mods/effort to
> =>gain more
> =>> out of this 8v.
> =>>
> =>> 3a block, oem specs pistons, rebuild 7K miles ago
> =>> JH head with no mods on it
> =>> 4-2 manifold, 2-3 eurosport downpipe, to high-flow cat to 2"
> =>eurosport cat
> =>> back.
> =>> G grind Cam
> =>> 8lbs flywheel
> =>> scirocco 16v knock sensor and box (cis-lambda + knock)
> =>> 16v air box intake
> =>> OEM scirocco 85 fuel delivery pump and injectors.
> =>>
> =>> Things to consider;
> =>>
> =>> JH engine = 75HP(NET) @ 5500 RPM with 100 ft Torque @ 3000 RPM
> =>> 3a engine = 108 (NET) @ 5300 RPM with 121 ft Torque @ 3200 RPM
> =>>
> =>> dyno link ->
> =>> <http://www.longcoeur.com/scirocco/various/dyno/dyno%5Fatsgtx01%2EJPG>
> =>>
> =>> So basically I am in between them two engines... any thoughts ?
> =>and if you
> =>> have a dyno image I would like to have them please...(with
> =>mods) so I know
> =>> where to seek improvements
> =>>
> =>> ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
> =>> ----------------------------------------------
> =>> MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
> =>> ICQ:32918816           |AIM:Texasscirocco
> =>> ----------------------------------------------
> =>>
> =>>
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