[TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...

[txrocco at sbcglobal.net (ATS - Patrick Bureau)]

Mr Potter : headwork... yes I know... got 800$ to spare ? hehe I am working
on saving the cash for a full blow reworked head (ie: racing specs)

Dan: as always Appreciate your inputs (even if we diagree about that 8v/16v
thing eheh)

1. the TB is audi5000, I use CIS-Lambda with 16v Knock sensor/box, and this
included the 16v TB switches setup (2 switches),you may be on to somthing
about the fuel mix, (It hink it may be fuel pressure and wil check that
soon), but enrichment switch.. humm. wil have to test the switches to see if
one failed on me. good point

2. the fuel/air mix is not 15:1 , but close (14.8:1 average) and I see your
point.

3. I am working on geting a head reworked, as for springs, if I did go
268-272 cam would I need to change for HD ?


ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
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MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
ICQ:32918816           |AIM:Texasscirocco
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=>-----Original Message-----
=>From: Dan Bubb [mailto:jdbubb@ix.netcom.com]
=>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:18 PM
=>To: ATS - Patrick Bureau; _Scirocco Mailing List
=>Subject: Re: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
=>
=>
=>Personally, I thought you'd be 115-118 HP so this is a suprise!
=>There's really no way to compare my engine to yours because of
=>the Haltech,
=>but I still have some input (don't I always!)
=>A week ago I was going to suggest you include A/F ratio in your
=>runs, but I
=>see you have. There's a huge clue right there! Dead on 15:1 across the
=>board! CIS is awesome it can hold stoichometric so accurately!
=>Now, (this is Dan the Parent!) how many times did I give input on
=>setting up
=>your CIS WOT switch???? If you're running at 15:1 then your switch isn't
=>triggering or there is some problem with the wiring or something. Your
=>engine is constantly running closed loop. With the switch it'd go
=>open loop
=>and drop to mid 13:1 (I presume). Now we talked briefly about
=>this at Cincy,
=>but the KS ignition WOT switch is not the CIS WOT switch and as far as I
=>know they don't have any interconnection, but whatever, your CIS
=>WOT switch
=>is clearly not working or connected.
=>So, step one is get the frigging WOT switch wired and working. I
=>bet that'd
=>give you 5-10 HP right there.
=>The next items that come to mind are:
=>1) head, the stock GTI head just isn't that high flow. You need a ported
=>head to start making big power with the 8V (one friggen smart
=>crack from the
=>16V guys! Just one!). Not sure if a cam will do much without the
=>head work.
=>My recollection (this is Dan the old fart speaking) when I was running a
=>stock head going to a bigger cam with the 2.0 just gutted the bottom end
=>without adding anything to the top. I have no objective data and the butt
=>dyno is a notorious lier, so take that as you wish.
=>2) cam. The G grind is a good mild cam. You want an 8V to make power you
=>need something that'll make your idle good and lumpy. 272, 280!
=>They do hurt
=>the bottom end, but the 2.0 can loose some bottom end and still have
=>terrific off the line acceleration.
=>3)why the hell are you running a 16V KS box? A 16V isn't an 8V and the
=>ignition curve is undoubtedly different. Despite your mods I think you
=>should be running an 8V KS box. Just my opinion.
=>My exhaust, flywheel, fuel pumps, CR are the substantially the
=>same as yours
=>and they support alot more HP so those aren't a big issue for upgrade.
=>Maybe I'll think of more later.
=>I bet you could work out the CIS WOT switch before you go to work
=>tomorrow.
=>There's a noticable difference!
=>HTH!
=>Dan
=>
=>
=>
=>----- Original Message -----
=>From: ATS - Patrick Bureau <txrocco@sbcglobal.net>
=>To: _Scirocco Mailing List <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
=>Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 4:01 PM
=>Subject: [TECH] 3a dyno in and I am disappointed, sorta...
=>
=>
=>> alright after all my work here is the results I got for my 8v....
=>>
=>> Best run 97.9HP @ 5200 RPM with 118.9 ft torque @ 3100 RPM, dwell set at
=>60'
=>> and timing at 14' idle, 28' @ 3000 rpm.
=>> Worst paladin7run 93.9HP @5200 RPM with 116.3FT torque @ 2800 RPM, dwell
=>set
=>> at 45' and timing at 8' idle, 23' @ 3000 rpm.
=>>
=>> Now I will list my mods to the engine so we can compare apples
=>with apples
=>> and maybe someone can post me their setup and I can figure out
=>where I am
=>> loosing/needing to concentrate my next series of mods/effort to
=>gain more
=>> out of this 8v.
=>>
=>> 3a block, oem specs pistons, rebuild 7K miles ago
=>> JH head with no mods on it
=>> 4-2 manifold, 2-3 eurosport downpipe, to high-flow cat to 2"
=>eurosport cat
=>> back.
=>> G grind Cam
=>> 8lbs flywheel
=>> scirocco 16v knock sensor and box (cis-lambda + knock)
=>> 16v air box intake
=>> OEM scirocco 85 fuel delivery pump and injectors.
=>>
=>> Things to consider;
=>>
=>> JH engine = 75HP(NET) @ 5500 RPM with 100 ft Torque @ 3000 RPM
=>> 3a engine = 108 (NET) @ 5300 RPM with 121 ft Torque @ 3200 RPM
=>>
=>> dyno link ->
=>> <http://www.longcoeur.com/scirocco/various/dyno/dyno%5Fatsgtx01%2EJPG>
=>>
=>> So basically I am in between them two engines... any thoughts ?
=>and if you
=>> have a dyno image I would like to have them please...(with
=>mods) so I know
=>> where to seek improvements
=>>
=>> ATS - Patrick Bureau - txrocco@sbcglobal.net
=>> ----------------------------------------------
=>> MSN:ATSGTX@hotmail.com |YAHOO:ATSGTX@yahoo.com
=>> ICQ:32918816           |AIM:Texasscirocco
=>> ----------------------------------------------
=>>
=>>
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