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small boost set-up with CIS-E??
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Ryan:=20
I think most of your point apply to the 16V. I believe Jesse has a JH =
8V.
So:
1. no head gasket antics required. engine is already at 8.5:1 cr.
2. head studs. I would think any power level acheiveable with CIS (not =
including an EIC) wouldn't need head studs.
3. timing retard. Remember this isn't a KS ignition on an '84. MSD =
retard box or perhaps a distributor with a retard diaphragm.
4. Fuel. all these points are good except not sure about if you should =
block off the 5th port on the Audi FD. Personally I'd use the Volvo FD =
and not worry about fuel distribution issues.
The ATP manifold will mount any T3 turbine housing, so any T3 turbo or =
T3/T04 hybrid will bolt to it. I personally think it's a POS from a =
perfomance standpoint, but it's available, it isn't too expensive and =
it's proven.
Dan
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ryan H=20
To: jesse Neufeld=20
Cc: scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: small boost set-up with CIS-E??
Well Jesse, I don't know if you've been following my threads, but I've =
been discussing such a setup recently.
Problems with CIS-E include: Aggressive ignition map (turbos don't =
work well with much advance - detonation!), insufficient fuel delivery =
for more than about 5 lbs. boost. I talked with someone who has a turbo =
CIS (not -E), and they were able to run 5 psi with the stock setup (keep =
in mind, CIS doesn't advance timing as much). Also, CIS cars have a =
warm-up regulator, which to my knowledge can be adjusted for more fuel =
at high rpm.
Basically, the setup I believe will work after talking with everyone =
is this:
1.) dual MLS head gaskets (or one copper head gasket) to reduce =
compression to around 8.8:1
2.) ARP head studs (not vital with super low boost, but good =
insurance)
3.) Timing retard - don't know how else to do this other than =
retarding base timing big time. I will am looking for a better =
solution.
4.) Additional fuel - a couple suggestions: swapping in a Volvo 240 =
fuel distributor and warm up regulator - they are turbo factory, so the =
distrib/WUR provides more fuel. I don't think it's compatible with the =
differential pressure regulator of CIS-E, though. Audi 5000 fuel =
distributor - these have an extra port (they were 5 cylinders) which you =
could use near the throttle body. Only problem is, it would run really =
rich at idle.
As a note, the person who was running 5 lbs. on CIS cracked two sets =
of pistons.
For a real turbo kit, you shouldn't use either the factory 4-2 thing =
or an aftermarket downpipe... these are designed for naturally =
aspirated, and will crack under the high heat of a turbo. So look for a =
real manifold. ATP sells a manifold for use with the Garrett T3/04 =
turbo.
Overall, it's a lot more work than it looks, but well worth it if you =
can manage.
Any other questions, just ask.
>=20
> From: "jesse Neufeld" <twitchiban1234@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2003/03/05 Wed PM 10:33:16 EST
> To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: small boost set-up with CIS-E??
>=20
>=20
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-----
hey me and a friend were thinking of doing a small cheap turbo set up =
on his prelude and if it works out good maybe do one on my car in the =
near future.. so my question.. how well will the stock CIS-E fuel system =
on my 84 scirocco fare with about 5psi boost max? will it be sufficiant =
for a turbo set up?
also i have a a1 dual outlet manifold and the stock 4-1 "toilet bowl" =
off my car.. what one would be better to weld up as a turbo mani.??
thanks
-84 Kamei body Scirocco
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ryan: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think most of your point apply to the =
16V. I=20
believe Jesse has a JH 8V.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. no head gasket antics required. =
engine is=20
already at 8.5:1 cr.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. head studs. I would think any power =
level=20
acheiveable with CIS (not including an EIC) wouldn't need head=20
studs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. timing retard. Remember this isn't a =
KS ignition=20
on an '84. MSD retard box or perhaps a distributor with a retard=20
diaphragm.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4. Fuel. all these points are good =
except not sure=20
about if you should block off the 5th port on the Audi FD. =
Personally I'd=20
use the Volvo FD and not worry about fuel distribution =
issues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The ATP manifold will mount any T3 =
turbine housing,=20
so any T3 turbo or T3/T04 hybrid will bolt to it. I personally think =
it's a POS=20
from a perfomance standpoint, but it's available, it isn't too expensive =
and=20
it's proven.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:rhock99@epix.net"; title=3Drhock99@epix.net>Ryan =
H</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:twitchiban1234@hotmail.com"=20
title=3Dtwitchiban1234@hotmail.com>jesse Neufeld</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"=20
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 05, 2003 =
10:53=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: small boost set-up =
with=20
CIS-E??</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Well Jesse, I don't know if you've been following my =
threads,=20
but I've been discussing such a setup recently.<BR>Problems with CIS-E =
include: Aggressive ignition map (turbos don't work well with much =
advance -=20
detonation!), insufficient fuel delivery for more than about 5 lbs.=20
boost. I talked with someone who has a turbo CIS (not -E), and =
they were=20
able to run 5 psi with the stock setup (keep in mind, CIS doesn't =
advance=20
timing as much). Also, CIS cars have a warm-up regulator, which =
to my=20
knowledge can be adjusted for more fuel at high rpm.<BR>Basically, the =
setup I=20
believe will work after talking with everyone is this:<BR>1.) dual MLS =
head=20
gaskets (or one copper head gasket) to reduce compression to around=20
8.8:1<BR>2.) ARP head studs (not vital with super low boost, but good=20
insurance)<BR>3.) Timing retard - don't know how else to do this other =
than=20
retarding base timing big time. I will am looking for a better=20
solution.<BR>4.) Additional fuel - a couple suggestions: swapping in a =
Volvo=20
240 fuel distributor and warm up regulator - they are turbo factory, =
so the=20
distrib/WUR provides more fuel. I don't think it's compatible =
with the=20
differential pressure regulator of CIS-E, though. Audi 5000 fuel =
distributor - these have an extra port (they were 5 cylinders) which =
you could=20
use near the throttle body. Only problem is, it would run really =
rich at=20
idle.<BR><BR>As a note, the person who was running 5 lbs. on CIS =
cracked two=20
sets of pistons.<BR><BR>For a real turbo kit, you shouldn't use either =
the=20
factory 4-2 thing or an aftermarket downpipe... these are designed for =
naturally aspirated, and will crack under the high heat of a =
turbo. So=20
look for a real manifold. ATP sells a manifold for use with the =
Garrett=20
T3/04 turbo.<BR>Overall, it's a lot more work than it looks, but well =
worth it=20
if you can manage.<BR>Any other questions, just ask.<BR><BR><BR>> =
<BR>>=20
From: "jesse Neufeld" <twitchiban1234@hotmail.com><BR>> Date: =
2003/03/05 Wed PM 10:33:16 EST<BR>> To: =
scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>>=20
Subject: small boost set-up with CIS-E??<BR>> <BR>> <BR>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>hey me and a friend were thinking of doing a small cheap turbo set =
up on=20
his prelude and if it works out good maybe do one on my car in the =
near=20
future.. so my question.. how well will the stock CIS-E fuel system on =
my 84=20
scirocco fare with about 5psi boost max? will it be sufficiant for a =
turbo set=20
up?</P>
<P>also i have a a1 dual outlet manifold and the stock 4-1 "toilet =
bowl" off=20
my car.. what one would be better to weld up as a turbo=20
mani.??<BR>thanks<BR><BR></P>
<DIV>-84 Kamei body Scirocco</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
<HR>
Add photos to your messages with <A =
href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMQENCA/2749";>MSN=20
8. </A>Get 2 months FREE*. =
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Scirocco-l mailing list Scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l =
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