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How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
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no clue really.
I will have to wait till they see the bumpers to get a cost.
Josh Able
www.JsHouseOfEuro.com
ATTN: Proven FACT, my injectors can produce high numbers, for those who =
claimed they couldn't, enjoy the crow!
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rick Kellner=20
To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org ; Josh20V=20
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
Brian,
I threw the idea out there as a trial balloon to get the =
discussion and ideas flowing. It looks like it is working. =20
To answer a few of your questions regarding my specific reasons or =
considerations for switching to euros, first one would be appearance and =
second weight reductions. Major drawback would be crash protection.
As far as a glass or fiber clone, I was thinking along the line of =
just the skin and using some of the existing rebar for support.
Josh said that if he can get some loaner bumpers and 5 orders he =
can make them too. Josh, any ballpark idea on price? =20
Rick Kellner
84 8v
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Brian Haygood=20
To: Allyn ; Tobias >< ; rfkellner@snet.net ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org =
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
Are you guys talking about cf/glass euro bumper skins, or the whole =
bumper? Assuming you have a proper means to attach it, a skin shouldn't =
be hard at all. There is also no reason that the entire bumper can't be =
made of cf or glass. In fact, designing similar stuff to this was my =
job about 2 years ago. The differences are that this is a serious =
structural part, and you probably can't get away with slapping a piece =
made from fiberglass or carbon chop onto the back of a nice cosmetic =
piece like some of the cf hoods I've seen out there. I mean, you could, =
but you stand a much better chance of the two parts separating, and =
using chop like that just increases the weight a LOT, and isn't that at =
least part of the reason to get this stuff? Anyway, it wouldn't be =
anything new for me to put together a one-piece euro bumper (i.e. not =
two pieces glued together after the fact), with a nice cosmetic skin, =
some serious structure to it, and mounts for the existing bumper =
brackets. Given cost considerations it might be a good idea to use some =
fiberglass instead of making the entire thing carbon, but if that's done =
right the weight can stay down nicely. Nice thing about composites is, =
once the molds are made for the required shape, the part can still be =
tailored a lot to use carbon, kevlar, glass, or paper mache (kidding) if =
somebody wants it made of that. I also have the means to run finite =
element analysis on a part like this to make sure the strength is in the =
design (yes, people in the real world do DESIGN cf and glass parts when =
they need structural strength, not just copy the old steel part. =
Imagine that! hehe)=20
Anyway, just a head's up to the list, but I'll be moving in a little =
less than a year, and setting up a composites shop all my own. Like I =
said, I used to work for a company that designed and built prototype =
composite parts for everyone from Big3 Automakers to foreign governments =
and anyone else, so I'm trained in designng this stuff and building it =
as well. I have a couple of people who want some custom work for their =
cars, and I'm planning on copying a lot of my car (SII 16v) for my own =
personal use, so once the molds are made, I'll run extras off for =
whomever wants whatever. =20
If there is a demand at that time (~1 yr or so) for a eurobumper =
complete with substructure, I can design, analyze, and build some. =
Should be light enough to make any of us REALLY happy. :)=20
Just to give you some idea of what can be done with composites, one =
of my last projects was to redesign a large aluminum tray (on the order =
of 8' by 3') to hold 1500lbs of stuff I can't tell you about in a =
concept car. The aluminum tray weighed ~70lbs, and wasn't as strong as =
they needed the part to be. Our version was 47 lbs, was considerably =
stronger, and would have been lighter if we hadn't left a layer of =
plastic on each side so it could be mass produced more quickly (removed =
from molds more quickly). So now you are talking about a part that is =
30% lighter than an equivalent ALUMINUM part, and stronger, even with =
extra useless layers of plastic thrown in. I don't want to shoot my =
mouth off (more than I already have) about what replacements for steel =
scirocco parts should weigh, but you do the math.=20
BH=20
Allyn <amalventano@sc.rr.com> wrote:=20
while that would be cool, its kinda the only thing protecting the =
rest of the
car when some dumbass cuts you off / rear ends you. even with all =
the crazy
fiber-skin stuff i plan to do on the twin, i still intend on using =
'real' euro
bumpers.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tobias ><"=20
To: ;=20
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
>
> I sent that guy an email regarding his bumpers .. it's been a =
month, I
> haven't gotten a reply.
>
> I do know though that they were Fiberglass with Fiberglass =
brackets, no trim
> strips, and the front bumper was a bit shorter even than a euro =
bumper.
>
> This was his listed email addy: fidigt01@hotmail.com
>
> T
>
> ---------------------------------
> 1988 16V Scirocco - Black
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Rick Kellner"=20
> To:=20
> Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:58:34 -0500
>
> If you find the link to the other thread, please post it.
> I was just thinking with Josh gearing up production on other =
components that
> bumpers might be an option/opportunity. Also, we could generate =
some
> discussion on mounting options.
>
> Rick Kellner
> 84 8v
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Wong"=20
> To: "Rick Kellner" ;=20
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
>
>
> > There was a thread on vortex about carbon fiber
> > bumpers that s omeone made. Search is down so I can't
> > post a link to it.
> > --- Rick Kellner wrote:
> > > I know this has been mentioned by others before
> > > but I will float the
> > > idea again. How about fiberglass or carbon fiber
> > > Euro bumpers? Maybe
> > > something designed to use our existing rebar. The
> > > existing rebar could be
> > > cut or lightened to fit the new skin. Maybe not?
> > > If fenders are going to
> > > be approximately $80 then a straight piece of
> > > material, and less volume,
> > > shouldn't be more.
> > > Josh, what do you think?
> > >
> > > Rick Kellner
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> >
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > -Andrew Wong
> > 1984 Black Scirocco
> > 1987 White Quantum wagon
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Scirocco-l mailing list
> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>
>
> =
_________________________________________________________________
> Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Scirocco-l mailing list
> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>
__________________________ _____________________
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<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>no clue =
really.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>I will have to wait till they =
see the=20
bumpers to get a cost.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Josh Able<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.JsHouseOfEuro.com";>www.JsHouseOfEuro.com</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ATTN: Proven FACT, my injectors can produce high numbers, for those =
who=20
claimed they couldn't, enjoy the crow!</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drfkellner@snet.net href=3D"mailto:rfkellner@snet.net";>Rick =
Kellner</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> ; =
<A=20
title=3Dmkii@nycap.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:mkii@nycap.rr.com";>Josh20V</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 04, 2002 =
7:34=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How about Glass or =
Carbon=20
Fiber Euro Bumpers?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I threw the idea =
out there as=20
a trial balloon to get the discussion and ideas flowing. It =
looks like=20
it is working. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> To answer a few of =
your=20
questions regarding my specific reasons or =
considerations for=20
switching to euros, first one would be appearance and second weight=20
reductions. Major drawback would be crash =
protection.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> As far as a glass =
or fiber=20
clone, I was thinking along the line of just the skin and using some =
of the=20
existing rebar for support.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Josh said =
that if=20
he can get some loaner bumpers and 5 orders he can make =
them=20
too. <FONT color=3D#ff0000>Josh, any ballpark idea on=20
price?</FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Rick Kellner<BR>84 8v</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dred8716v@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:red8716v@yahoo.com";>Brian=20
Haygood</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Damalventano@sc.rr.com=20
href=3D"mailto:amalventano@sc.rr.com";>Allyn</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dscirocco16v88@hotmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco16v88@hotmail.com";>Tobias ><</A> ; <A=20
title=3Drfkellner@snet.net=20
href=3D"mailto:rfkellner@snet.net";>rfkellner@snet.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 04, =
2002 1:57=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How about Glass =
or Carbon=20
Fiber Euro Bumpers?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P>Are you guys talking about cf/glass euro bumper skins, or the =
whole=20
bumper? Assuming you have a proper means to attach it, a skin=20
shouldn't be hard at all. There is also no reason that the =
entire=20
bumper can't be made of cf or glass. In fact, designing =
similar stuff=20
to this was my job about 2 years ago. The differences are that =
this is=20
a serious structural part, and you probably can't get away with =
slapping a=20
piece made from fiberglass or carbon chop onto the back of a nice =
cosmetic=20
piece like some of the cf hoods I've seen out there. I mean, =
you=20
could, but you stand a much better chance of the two parts =
separating, and=20
using chop like that just increases the weight a LOT, and isn't that =
at=20
least part of the reason to get this stuff? =
Anyway,=20
it wouldn't be anything new for me to put together a one-piece euro =
bumper=20
(i.e. not two pieces glued together after the fact), with a nice =
cosmetic=20
skin, some serious structure to it, and mounts for the existing =
bumper=20
brackets. Given cost considerations it might be a good idea to =
use=20
some fiberglass instead of making the entire thing carbon, but=20
if that's done right the weight can stay down =
nicely. Nice=20
thing about composites is, once the molds are made for the required =
shape,=20
the part can still be tailored a lot to use carbon, kevlar, glass, =
or paper=20
mache (kidding) if somebody wants it made of that. I also have =
the=20
means to run finite element analysis on a part like this to make =
sure the=20
strength is in the design (yes, people in the real world do DESIGN =
cf and=20
glass parts when they need structural strength, not just copy the =
old steel=20
part. Imagine that! hehe)=20
<P>Anyway, just a head's up to the list, but I'll be moving in a =
little less=20
than a year, and setting up a composites shop all my own. Like =
I said,=20
I used to work for a company that designed and built prototype =
composite=20
parts for everyone from Big3 Automakers to foreign governments and =
anyone=20
else, so I'm trained in designng this stuff and building it as =
well. I=20
have a couple of people who want some custom work for their cars, =
and I'm=20
planning on copying a lot of my car (SII 16v) for my own =
personal use,=20
so once the molds are made, I'll run extras off for whomever wants=20
whatever. =20
<P>If there is a demand at that time (~1 yr or so) for =
a eurobumper=20
complete with substructure, I can design, analyze, and build =
some. =20
Should be light enough to make any of us REALLY happy. :)=20
<P>Just to give you some idea of what can be done with composites, =
one of my=20
last projects was to redesign a large aluminum tray (on the =
order of 8'=20
by 3') to hold 1500lbs of stuff I can't tell you about in a concept=20
car. The aluminum tray weighed ~70lbs, and wasn't as strong as =
they=20
needed the part to be. Our version was 47 lbs, was =
considerably=20
stronger, and would have been lighter if we hadn't left a layer of =
plastic=20
on each side so it could be mass produced more quickly (removed from =
molds=20
more quickly). So now you are talking about a part that =
is 30%=20
lighter than an equivalent ALUMINUM part, and stronger, even with =
extra=20
useless layers of plastic thrown in. I don't want to =
shoot my=20
mouth off (more than I already have) about what replacements for =
steel=20
scirocco parts should weigh, but you do the math.=20
<P>BH=20
<P>
<P> <B><I>Allyn <amalventano@sc.rr.com></I></B> wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff =
2px solid">while=20
that would be cool, its kinda the only thing protecting the rest =
of=20
the<BR>car when some dumbass cuts you off / rear ends you. even =
with all=20
the crazy<BR>fiber-skin stuff i plan to do on the twin, i still =
intend on=20
using 'real' euro<BR>bumpers.<BR>Al<BR><BR>----- Original Message=20
-----<BR>From: "Tobias ><" =
<SCIROCCO16V88@HOTMAIL.COM><BR>To:=20
<RFKELLNER@SNET.NET>; <SCIROCCO-L@SCIROCCO.ORG><BR>Sent: Monday, =
November=20
04, 2002 12:23 AM<BR>Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber =
Euro=20
Bumpers?<BR><BR><BR>><BR>> I sent that guy an email =
regarding his=20
bumpers .. it's been a month, I<BR>> haven't gotten a=20
reply.<BR>><BR>> I do know though that they were Fiberglass =
with=20
Fiberglass brackets, no trim<BR>> strips, and the front bumper =
was a=20
bit shorter even than a euro bumper.<BR>><BR>> This was his =
listed=20
email addy: fidigt01@hotmail.com<BR>><BR>> T<BR>><BR>> =
---------------------------------<BR>> 1988 16V Scirocco -=20
Black<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ----Original =
Message=20
Follows----<BR>> From: "Rick Kellner" =
<RFKELLNER@SNET.NET><BR>> To:=20
<SCIROCCO-L@SCIROCCO.ORG><BR>> Subject: Re: How about Glass or =
Carbon=20
Fiber Euro Bumpers?<BR>> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:58:34=20
-0500<BR>><BR>> If you find the link to the other thread, =
please=20
post it.<BR>> I was just thinking with Josh gearing up =
production on=20
other components that<BR>> bumpers might be an =
option/opportunity.=20
Also, we could generate some<BR>> discussion on mounting=20
options.<BR>><BR>> Rick Kellner<BR>> 84 8v<BR>> ----- =
Original=20
Message -----<BR>> From: "Andrew Wong" =
<MKII_84@YAHOO.COM><BR>> To:=20
"Rick Kellner" <RFKELLNER@SNET.NET>; =
<SCIROCCO-L@SCIROCCO.ORG><BR>>=20
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:49 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: How =
about=20
Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?<BR>><BR>><BR>> > =
There was=20
a thread on vortex about carbon fiber<BR>> > bumpers that s =
omeone=20
made. Search is down so I can't<BR>> > post a link to =
it.<BR>>=20
> --- Rick Kellner <RFKELLNER@SNET.NET>wrote:<BR>> > > =
I know=20
this has been mentioned by others before<BR>> > > but I =
will=20
float the<BR>> > > idea again. How about fiberglass or =
carbon=20
fiber<BR>> > > Euro bumpers? Maybe<BR>> > > =
something=20
designed to use our existing rebar. The<BR>> > > existing =
rebar=20
could be<BR>> > > cut or lightened to fit the new skin. =
Maybe=20
not?<BR>> > > If fenders are going to<BR>> > > =
be=20
approximately $80 then a straight piece of<BR>> > > =
material, and=20
less volume,<BR>> > > shouldn't be more.<BR>> > =
> Josh,=20
what do you think?<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Rick=20
Kellner<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > >=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> > >=20
Scirocco-l mailing list<BR>> > > =
Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>>=20
> > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR>> =
><BR>> ><BR>> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>> > =
-Andrew Wong<BR>>=20
> 1984 Black Scirocco<BR>> > 1987 White Quantum =
wagon<BR>>=20
><BR>> >=20
__________________________________________________<BR>> > Do =
you=20
Yahoo!?<BR>> > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now<BR>> =
>=20
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/<BR>> ><BR>><BR>><BR>>=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> Scirocco-l =
mailing=20
list<BR>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>>=20
=
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR>><BR>><BR>> =
=
_________________________________________________________________<BR>>=
=20
Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.<BR>> =
=
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp<BR>><BR>><BR=
>>=20
_______________________________________________<BR>> Scirocco-l =
mailing=20
list<BR>> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>>=20
=
http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR>><BR><BR><BR>_____=
_____________________=20
_____________________<BR>Scirocco-l mailing=20
=
list<BR>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/=
scirocco-l</BLOCKQUOTE>
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<HR SIZE=3D1>
Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/careers/mailsig/*http://www.hotjobs.com =
">HotJobs</A>=20
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