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How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?



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Are you guys talking about cf/glass euro bumper skins, or the whole bumper?  Assuming you have a proper means to attach it, a skin shouldn't be hard at all.  There is also no reason that the entire bumper can't be made of cf or glass.  In fact, designing similar stuff to this was my job about 2 years ago.  The differences are that this is a serious structural part, and you probably can't get away with slapping a piece made from fiberglass or carbon chop onto the back of a nice cosmetic piece like some of the cf hoods I've seen out there.  I mean, you could, but you stand a much better chance of the two parts separating, and using chop like that just increases the weight a LOT, and isn't that at least part of the reason to get this stuff?     Anyway, it wouldn't be anything new for me to put together a one-piece euro bumper (i.e. not two pieces glued together after the fact), with a nice cosmetic skin, some serious structure to it, and mounts for the existing bumper brackets.  Given cost considerations it might be a good idea to use some fiberglass instead of making the entire thing carbon, but if that's done right the weight can stay down nicely.   Nice thing about composites is, once the molds are made for the required shape, the part can still be tailored a lot to use carbon, kevlar, glass, or paper mache (kidding) if somebody wants it made of that.  I also have the means to run finite element analysis on a part like this to make sure the strength is in the design (yes, people in the real world do DESIGN cf and glass parts when they need structural strength, not just copy the old steel part.  Imagine that! hehe)
Anyway, just a head's up to the list, but I'll be moving in a little less than a year, and setting up a composites shop all my own.  Like I said, I used to work for a company that designed and built prototype composite parts for everyone from Big3 Automakers to foreign governments and anyone else, so I'm trained in designng this stuff and building it as well.  I have a couple of people who want some custom work for their cars, and I'm planning on copying a lot of my car (SII 16v) for my own personal use, so once the molds are made, I'll run extras off for whomever wants whatever.  
If there is a demand at that time (~1 yr or so) for a eurobumper complete with substructure, I can design, analyze, and build some.  Should be light enough to make any of us REALLY happy. :)
Just to give you some idea of what can be done with composites, one of my last projects was to redesign a large aluminum tray (on the order of 8' by 3') to hold 1500lbs of stuff I can't tell you about in a concept car.  The aluminum tray weighed ~70lbs, and wasn't as strong as they needed the part to be.  Our version was 47 lbs, was considerably stronger, and would have been lighter if we hadn't left a layer of plastic on each side so it could be mass produced more quickly (removed from molds more quickly).  So now you are talking about a part that is 30% lighter than an equivalent ALUMINUM part, and stronger, even with extra useless layers of plastic thrown in.   I don't want to shoot my mouth off (more than I already have) about what replacements for steel scirocco parts should weigh, but you do the math.
BH
 
 Allyn <amalventano@sc.rr.com> wrote:while that would be cool, its kinda the only thing protecting the rest of the
car when some dumbass cuts you off / rear ends you. even with all the crazy
fiber-skin stuff i plan to do on the twin, i still intend on using 'real' euro
bumpers.
Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tobias ><" 
To: ; 
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?


>
> I sent that guy an email regarding his bumpers .. it's been a month, I
> haven't gotten a reply.
>
> I do know though that they were Fiberglass with Fiberglass brackets, no trim
> strips, and the front bumper was a bit shorter even than a euro bumper.
>
> This was his listed email addy: fidigt01@hotmail.com
>
> T
>
> ---------------------------------
> 1988 16V Scirocco - Black
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Rick Kellner" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:58:34 -0500
>
> If you find the link to the other thread, please post it.
> I was just thinking with Josh gearing up production on other components that
> bumpers might be an option/opportunity. Also, we could generate some
> discussion on mounting options.
>
> Rick Kellner
> 84 8v
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Wong" 
> To: "Rick Kellner" ; 
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?
>
>
> > There was a thread on vortex about carbon fiber
> > bumpers that someone made. Search is down so I can't
> > post a link to it.
> > --- Rick Kellner wrote:
> > > I know this has been mentioned by others before
> > > but I will float the
> > > idea again. How about fiberglass or carbon fiber
> > > Euro bumpers? Maybe
> > > something designed to use our existing rebar. The
> > > existing rebar could be
> > > cut or lightened to fit the new skin. Maybe not?
> > > If fenders are going to
> > > be approximately $80 then a straight piece of
> > > material, and less volume,
> > > shouldn't be more.
> > > Josh, what do you think?
> > >
> > > Rick Kellner
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Scirocco-l mailing list
> > > Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> > > http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
> >
> >
> > =====
> > -Andrew Wong
> > 1984 Black Scirocco
> > 1987 White Quantum wagon
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>
>
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>
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>


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<P>Are you guys talking about cf/glass euro bumper skins, or the whole bumper?&nbsp; Assuming you have a proper means to attach it, a skin shouldn't be hard at all.&nbsp; There is also no reason that the entire bumper can't be made of cf or glass.&nbsp; In fact, designing similar stuff to this was my job about 2 years ago.&nbsp; The differences are that this is a serious structural part, and you probably can't get away with slapping a piece made from fiberglass or carbon chop onto the back of a nice cosmetic piece like some of the cf hoods I've seen out there.&nbsp; I mean, you could, but you stand a much better chance of the two parts separating, and using chop like that just increases the weight a LOT, and isn't that at least part of the reason to get this stuff?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, it wouldn't be anything new for me to put together a one-piece euro bumper (i.e. not two pieces glued together after the fact), with a nice cosmetic skin, some serious structure to it, and mounts for the existing bumper brackets.&nbsp; Given cost considerations it might be a good idea to use some fiberglass instead of making the entire thing carbon, but if&nbsp;that's done right the weight can stay down nicely.&nbsp;&nbsp; Nice thing about composites is, once the molds are made for the required shape, the part can still be tailored a lot to use carbon, kevlar, glass, or paper mache (kidding) if somebody wants it made of that.&nbsp; I also have the means to run finite element analysis on a part like this to make sure the strength is in the design (yes, people in the real world do DESIGN cf and glass parts when they need structural strength, not just copy the old steel part.&nbsp; Imagine that! hehe)
<P>Anyway, just a head's up to the list, but I'll be moving in a little less than a year, and setting up a composites shop all my own.&nbsp; Like I said, I used to work for a company that designed and built prototype composite parts for everyone from Big3 Automakers to foreign governments and anyone else, so I'm trained in designng this stuff and building it as well.&nbsp; I have a couple of people who want some custom work for their cars, and I'm planning on copying&nbsp;a lot of my car (SII 16v) for my own personal use, so once the molds are made, I'll run extras off for whomever wants whatever.&nbsp; 
<P>If there is a demand at that time (~1 yr or so) for a&nbsp;eurobumper complete with substructure, I can design, analyze, and build some.&nbsp; Should be light enough to make any of us&nbsp;REALLY happy. :)
<P>Just to give you some idea of what can be done with composites, one of my last projects was to redesign&nbsp;a large aluminum tray (on the order of 8' by 3') to hold 1500lbs of stuff I can't tell you about in a concept car.&nbsp; The aluminum tray weighed ~70lbs, and wasn't as strong as they needed the part to be.&nbsp; Our version was 47 lbs, was considerably stronger, and would have been lighter if we hadn't left a layer of plastic on each side so it could be mass produced more quickly (removed from molds more quickly).&nbsp; So now you are talking about&nbsp;a part that is 30% lighter than an equivalent ALUMINUM part, and stronger, even with extra useless layers of plastic thrown in.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't want to shoot my mouth off (more than I already have) about what replacements for steel scirocco parts should weigh, but you do the math.
<P>BH
<P>&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<B><I>Allyn &lt;amalventano@sc.rr.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">while that would be cool, its kinda the only thing protecting the rest of the<BR>car when some dumbass cuts you off / rear ends you. even with all the crazy<BR>fiber-skin stuff i plan to do on the twin, i still intend on using 'real' euro<BR>bumpers.<BR>Al<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tobias &gt;&lt;" <SCIROCCO16V88@HOTMAIL.COM><BR>To: <RFKELLNER@SNET.NET>; <SCIROCCO-L@SCIROCCO.ORG><BR>Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 12:23 AM<BR>Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I sent that guy an email regarding his bumpers .. it's been a month, I<BR>&gt; haven't gotten a reply.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I do know though that they were Fiberglass with Fiberglass brackets, no trim<BR>&gt; strips, and the front bumper was a bit shorter even than a euro bumper.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This was his listed email addy: fidigt01@hotmail.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; T<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ---------------------------------<BR>&gt; 1988 16V Scirocco - Black<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----Original Message Follows----<BR>&gt; From: "Rick Kellner" <RFKELLNER@SNET.NET><BR>&gt; To: <SCIROCCO-L@SCIROCCO.ORG><BR>&gt; Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?<BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:58:34 -0500<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you find the link to the other thread, please post it.<BR>&gt; I was just thinking with Josh gearing up production on other components that<BR>&gt; bumpers might be an option/opportunity. Also, we could generate some<BR>&gt; discussion on mounting options.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Rick Kellner<BR>&gt; 84 8v<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Andrew Wong" <MKII_84@YAHOO.COM><BR>&gt; To: "Rick Kellner" <RFKELLNER@SNET.NET>; <SCIROCCO-L@SCIROCCO.ORG><BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:49 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: How about Glass or Carbon Fiber Euro Bumpers?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; There was a thread on vortex about carbon fiber<BR>&gt; &gt; bumpers that someone made. Search is down so I can't<BR>&gt; &gt; post a link to it.<BR>&gt; &gt; --- Rick Kellner <RFKELLNER@SNET.NET>wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I know this has been mentioned by others before<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; but I will float the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; idea again. How about fiberglass or carbon fiber<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Euro bumpers? Maybe<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; something designed to use our existing rebar. The<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; existing rebar could be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; cut or lightened to fit the new skin. Maybe not?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; If fenders are going to<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; be approximately $80 then a straight piece of<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; material, and less volume,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; shouldn't be more.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Josh, what do you think?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Rick Kellner<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Scirocco-l mailing list<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =====<BR>&gt; &gt; -Andrew Wong<BR>&gt; &gt; 1984 Black Scirocco<BR>&gt; &gt; 1987 White Quantum wagon<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; &gt; Do you Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; &gt; HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now<BR>&gt; &gt; http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Scirocco-l mailing list<BR>&gt; Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>&gt; http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.<BR>&gt; http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Scirocco-l mailing list<BR>&gt; Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>&gt; http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Scirocco-l mailing list<BR>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org<BR>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l</BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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