Stretch bolts?

[Larry" <rocco16v@netzero.com (Larry)]

Jonas-
  I have to agree with you on the lack of definite "proof" one way or the
other.  Someone, Meze I think, mentioned experimenting with some head bolts
he has, to determine if the bolt actually elongates during the standard
tightening method.  I hope he does it and reports back.....
 You are also correct  when you say new bolts are worth the few extra $$.  I
would never advocate saving pennies at the risk of multi-dollar failure.  If
accepting the belief that the bolts in question are only good for one use
will save someone from a fragged engine/clutch/etc, then I'm all for letting
them believe it.
No, I didn't realize I'd taken this off-list.  With your permission, I'll
return it.  If seeing our (sometimes differing) opinions can help someone in
some way, well, that's what this list is for.
It's been good  discussing this with you.  Truly.....
I have no way of scanning the article, but you may be able to read it
online!  Try www.assemblymag.com , May 2002
The Fastening feature.
Later!

Larry

>
> > Jonas-
> >
> > --------What is your source?--------
>
> Well I must confess that it is only every reputable VW mechanic I've ever
> spoken to. But I'm still digging to find the info in official VW
> publications. Stay tuned (pun intended)
>
> > ------I, too, trust the engineers, and use the procedure they have
> > developed.  From the facts that I know of, that procedure does not
> > permanetly stretch our bolts-------
>
> Do you have any facts beyond the article in "Assembly"? If so then great
and
> very interesting, it's just that your original post made it sound like you
> read the article and based your statement on it's generalized fastener
> procedures. I'd love to see someone test the VW bolts to see weather or
not
> they reach the yield point. That would settle it.
>
> >> IMHO it would be unwise to dismiss the clear directions from VW based
on
> >> the findings in "ASSEMBLY" magazine
>
> >> $30 is not worth it for me.
> >
> > ------I have no problem with your position. It's probably not worth it
to me
> > either!  All I am saying is that there is very compelling evidence that
the
> > aforementioned bolts (head, pressure plate, rod, oh, and crank
sprocket)are
> > NOT tightened past their yield point and are perfectly re-useable, if
you
> > are so inclined.  Peace!------   Larry  sandiego16V
>
> I feel that the question is unsettled, at best. I certainly have _zero_
> physical evidence, and common belief could be very wrong. You raise a good
> question in "Are the VW 12point head bolt, rod bolt and PP bolts true
> stretch bolts, or can they be reused?" and the topic deserves a gool look.
>
> But all I'm saying is that I have not seen any compelling evidence yet
that
> they are _not_ stretch bolts. Anecdotal evidence of people doing it
"without
> problem" is irrelevant, and I think the article in "Assembly" is _much_
too
> generalized to be applied to our situation. It's written from a design
> aspect, right, not for the average end-user? Maybe you could scan the
> article, I'd be interested in reading it.
>
> The biggest problem that I see with this is that most people on the list
are
> looking to save money on their automotive repair, and are in it for the
long
> haul. Even if the bolt is tightened past the yield point, it may very well
> "work" once or twice more, but what happens on the 10th time the bolt is
> used? Catastrophic failures are a pisser. Head bolts are one thing, but a
> Pressure plate coming loose at redline would be very ugly.
>
> But keep up the good work. Eventually we'll get to the bottom of this.
Even
> if we have to pool our money together to buy that $15k tool to do the damn
> measuring ourselves. -wait- we're Scirocco owners, that'll never happen.
:-)
>
> Jonas
>
> PS. Did you intend to bring this off list, or was that a mistake. I have
no
> problem with either way, but some people on the list may benefit from our
> conversation. I've left it off list for now, in case that was your intent,
> but feel free to cc the list on any future replies, if you want.
>
>