[Re: [RE: OT but interesting story]]

[justinp@palm.net (Justin Pennington)]

Well Where I Live in Maryland. The State Police do all that.  Maryland pu=
ts
alot of things under the State Police. For instance All prehospital helic=
opter
transports of patients to hospitals are run by the State Police.  I know
Delaware does the same.  However not all states do it that way.  Some hav=
e
private companies (PA does that)... So I think it really varies from Stat=
e to
State, as to if the Police have their own division that would handle all =
of
the accident reconstruction stuff.
Justin

cwass99@rogers.com wrote:
     I should know better than to jump into a thread like this after seve=
ral
glasses of wine...
     You can calculate the speed the car was travelling from the skid mar=
ks
based on things like coefficient of friction, weather, etc.  You can't ge=
t
more
than a very wide range from the distance the engine travels after it
seperates.
 You have to allow for the shear strength of whatever mounts and other
hardware
directly attached the engine to the frame (which are generally within a r=
ange
of values) plus the forces required to get the engine out of the compartm=
ent.

Then you have to allow for tumbling and rolling, which is not determinist=
ic,
especially not related to coefficient of friction for the engine itself.
     AFAIK, accident evaluations are done by specialists working on contr=
act
to
the police, not the cops specifically.  I know of several companies that
specialize in accident reconstruction.  From the engine's final resting
place,
you can determine direction of travel and the lower limit of velocity at =
the
time of collision, but not much more.
     I have to admit, I'm much more interested in the level of forces
relieved
by the seperation of the various major components.  I understand better t=
han
60% of the forces involved in a Grand Prix major accident are absorbed an=
d
carried away when the engine seperates, as designed.  I guess that's why
these
guys can hit a wall over 200 Kph and walk away (well, their feet and legs=

could
present a problem).

Cheers,
Colin

On 15-May-2002 Justin Pennington wrote:
> Actually it can be done.  Police do it all the time... Thats how thy ca=
n
> prove
> how fast a car was going... However very precise measurments must be ta=
ken.

> Ie Road conditions, type of tires, tempature, etc.
> Cuase they must figure out what the coefficent of friction is (you phys=
ics
> people out there will understand that) between the tires and the road. =
 And
> now that you are talking about a motor going down the road... well you
would
> have to know the motors Coef. of Fr.  Which I have a feeling is going t=
o be
> more trouble than it is worth.  (after all the motor would prob tumble.=

> So yes it could be done.  But I doubt anyone has the time among us. :)
> And we would have to get the exact measurements and stuff, which I doub=
t
was
> taken.
> Justin
> =

> =

> =

> "Wes Brockway" <kywes@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Well all of this has become very interesting to me. I had heard about
> the crumple zone but didn't realize how much more the manufacturers do
> to help in case of an accident. Any physicists out there who could
> calculate from the distance the motor traveled and the weight of the
> motor how fast they were going? I'm not that smart if it can be done.
> =

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
> [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org] On Behalf Of Justin Pennington
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 7:58 PM
> To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: Re: OT but interesting story
> =

> =

> Eric is right... I'm a Medic and have been so for a few years.  And whe=
n
> it comes to accidents some of the oddest things can happen.  Mainly due=

> to car designers making the cars to basically fall apart in the event o=
f
> a collision.  After all the Energy has to go somewhere in an accident.
> Hence the crumple zone idea.  Sure it totals a car, but if the car can
> absorb more of the energy then less gets transfered into the person.
> Ive seen several accidents where Engines have come apart from the
> vehicle.  And even some where Hoods and Hatches/Trunks have come apart.=

> After all the more energy that gets diverted the better off the patient=

> usually is. Just my input. Justin
> =

> Ps. Anyone in the MD/PA/DE/NJ area that is looking for some scirocco
> project contact me.  I am considering selling both of mine (one needs
> work to run, one is parts car)
> =

> =

> Message: 77
> Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 19:49:05 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Night Shadow <soltwede@privateI.com>
> To: Wes Brockway <KYWes@bellsouth.net>
> cc: Larry <rocco16v@netzero.com>, Michael Abatzis
> <abatzis2@hotmail.com>, scirocco-l@scirocco.org
> Subject: Re: OT but interesting story
> =

>> Interesting thread responses here but I had listed the stoy because of=

> =

>> the info that the engine had pulled loose from the car and traveled 65=

> =

>> ft. Is this not a surprise to anyone? Not what I would expect to =

>> happen.
> =

> Actually, yes, this is normal. Volvo has done this for years. In the
> case of a head on crash, the motor is supposed to drop out the bottom o=
f
> the car instead of getting pushed into the passenger compartment. What
> happened hear is the forces just pulled the motor out...I imagine not a=

> head on crash but more that the GTI slid sideways into a pole or
> something...
> =

> Eric
> =

> =

> --
> Eric
> Northglenn, CO
> =

> =

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Cheers,
Colin

If you can read this line, you're probably not illiterate.




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