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Master Cylinder question

Subject: Master Cylinder question
From: thesirocco@yahoo.com (R Block)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:03:42 -0800
In-reply-to: <F24hh3ps8rCshEgxonY00023ba2@hotmail.com>
Chris,
While I know you probably have more experience with this stuff than me I 
will try to disagree with you for moment.

A larger MC gives less pedal travel (than a smaller one) to actuate the brakes.
A larger booster gives more pressure (less required from you foot) to 
actuate the brakes.
Am I correct in this?

Too large a MC can make it hard to modulate the brakes under racing or 
emergency conditions.
Too large a booster can take away some of the pedal feedback under these 
conditions.

Either way you are removing the driver from the experience. (I hope that 
makes sense).

In my opinion if you are having a hard time stopping a car (especially the 
light Mk1/Mk2) then a switch of pads is in order.
Mintex C-tech, Repco Metal masters, Ferodo ???, whatever wets yer whistle.
I realize It is a different story with a 3800lb S4 or 3200lb M3, but is 
because of their weight.

If a person is driving around with stock or unknown pads and decides that 
in order to get better braking they need to go with a larger MC/Booser or 
larger calipers/rotors they are going about it the wrong way (not putting 
the time and effort to find out what is really the problem). A switch to 
better (or newer) pads and/or rotors (staying the same size) or even 
bleeding the brakes properly can yield overwhelming results if the previous 
setup was bad.

BTW I am finially switching to the 16V booster and MC (thanks Mike!) with 
my full 16V setup (mk1) and am not looking forward to re-learning how to 
threshold brake and heel/toe with the new setup (was running the 16V brakes 
with 81 MC and Booster). I will be running 10.1"/8.9" Zimmerman X-drilled 
F/R and Front:Mintex c-tech, R:Mintex red-box.
In my opinion this setup will be MORE than enough for street or heavy track 
use (just ask people who have ridden with me how hard I am on brakes).
If it is not adequate for the track then I will get a second set of front 
rotors/pads for the track and run Hawk Blue pads, switching back and forth 
for street/track.

Just my limited experience $.02 worth.

Randy
www.myscirocco.org






At 04:18 AM 03/13/2002 +0000, Chris DeLong wrote:
>although you may not "see" any great advantage to having a 25mm master vs 
>a 22mm master. The difference is very real and very great.
>I work on these cars every day. I have seen jsut about any setup out 
>there. And I can say for certain that the 25mm master is a great improvement.
>
>
>>
>>nope, but though I am not trying to make you change your mind, unless you
>>have 13" brakes on your car, I see little advantage in 25mm M/C versus a
>>22mm M/C on 10" brakes.
>>
>>beside the 22 can be had at 90$, save your money for other mods or better
>>brake rotors (crossdrilled or ATE Slotted)
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>=>-----Original Message-----
>>=>From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
>>=>[mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of EUROROC II
>>=>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:25 PM
>>=>To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>Subject: Re: Master Cylinder question
>>=>
>>=>
>>=>Never mind. I confirmed that the 441 611 021 A is the right
>>=>number for the
>>=>25.4mm model. It was the only one used on the '91 Coupe Quatro.
>>=>
>>=>Anyone know what a good price for this would be? Impex has them
>>=>for around $200
>>=>
>>=>-Raffi
>>=>
>>=>
>>=>At 07:08 PM 3/12/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>=>>There is also one for Vacuum Servo 893 611 019A and one by
>>=>Girling 893 611
>>=>>021B. So which one? Another parts site I checked lists the replacement
>>=>>part as a 22.2mm master cylinder, are they wrong?
>>=>>
>>=>>-Raffi
>>=>>
>>=>>At 11:34 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>=>>>The # I got for 1990 Audi 80/90Q was:
>>=>>>441 611 021 A
>>=>>>"tandem master cylinder for vehicles with power steering and hydraulic
>>=>>>brake servo"
>>=>>>25, 40X17, 5/18 ATE lhd
>>=>>>Model 7A
>>=>>>
>>=>>>That the description I have in Etka based on the vehicle Chris described
>>=>>>Don't know if it will work or not.
>>=>>>
>>=>>>HTH
>>=>>>
>>=>>>Randy
>>=>>>
>>=>>>At 06:35 AM 03/12/2002 +0000, Chris DeLong wrote:
>>=>>>
>>=>>>>Due to my shitty video card I cant give the exact part number
>>=>'cause my
>>=>>>>etka wont work with this big shit. The ppart number starts
>>=>with a 441 I
>>=>>>>think. They come on an Audi 90 1990 quattro non-abs 20v non turbo.
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>>From: Scott Rose <slash2@mindspring.com>
>>=>>>>>To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>>>>Subject: Re: Master Cylinder question
>>=>>>>>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:51:21 -0600
>>=>>>>>
>>=>>>>>What are those off of, and what's the part #?
>>=>>>>>
>>=>>>>>
>>=>>>>>At 05:31 AM 3/12/02 +0000, you wrote:
>>=>>>>> >just use the 25mm master and you wont even think about
>>=>those dinky 22mm
>>=>>>>> >masters ever again.
>>=>>>>> >
>>=>>>>> >
>>=>>>>> >>From: EUROROC II <flaatr@yahoo.com>
>>=>>>>> >>To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>>>> >>Subject: Master Cylinder question
>>=>>>>> >>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:25:36 -0800
>>=>>>>> >>
>>=>>>>> >>If the Scirocco 16V and the Corrado (non ABS) both have 22mm master
>>=>>>>> >>cylinders then why does the Scirocco replacement cost more? I've
>>=>>>>> seen the
>>=>>>>> >>Corrado units for about $90 and I find Scirocco ones for
>>=>around $130
>>=>>>>> >>
>>=>>>>> >>What am I missing?
>>=>>>>> >>-Raffi
>>=>>>>> >>
>>=>>>>> >>
>>=>>>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>=>>>>> >>Scirocco-l mailing list
>>=>>>>> >>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>>>> >>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>>=>>>>> >
>>=>>>>> >
>>=>>>>> >_________________________________________________________________
>>=>>>>> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>>=>>>>> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>>=>>>>> >
>>=>>>>> >
>>=>>>>> >_______________________________________________
>>=>>>>> >Scirocco-l mailing list
>>=>>>>> >Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>>>> >http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>>=>>>>> >
>>=>>>>>Scott Rose
>>=>>>>>88 red 16v
>>=>>>>>90 yellow g60(or what's left of it)
>>=>>>>>
>>=>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>=>>>>>Scirocco-l mailing list
>>=>>>>>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>>>>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>Chris DeLong
>>=>>>>ICQ#45030867
>>=>>>>Seattle, WA USA
>>=>>>>'80 16V 'Rocco ragtop
>>=>>>>'91 GLi 2.0 16V
>>=>>>>'77 Rabbit 16V
>>=>>>>'80 'Vert (parting out!)
>>=>>>>'61 17 Window type II
>>=>>>>'91 Vanagon
>>=>>>>'78 Rabbit
>>=>>>>'84 Jetta
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>=>>>>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>
>>=>>>>_______________________________________________
>>=>>>>Scirocco-l mailing list
>>=>>>>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>>>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>>=>>>
>>=>>>
>>=>>>_________________________________________________________
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>>=>>>
>>=>>>
>>=>>>_______________________________________________
>>=>>>Scirocco-l mailing list
>>=>>>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>>=>>
>>=>>
>>=>>_______________________________________________
>>=>>Scirocco-l mailing list
>>=>>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>>=>
>>=>
>>=>_______________________________________________
>>=>Scirocco-l mailing list
>>=>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>=>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>>=>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Scirocco-l mailing list
>>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org
>>http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
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References:
- Master Cylinder question
  - From: green536@hotmail.com (Chris DeLong)
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