Dan's last comment on swaybars (unless provoked)

[jdbubb@ix.netcom.com (Dan Bubb)]

Well, I'm not sure I feal real "provoked" in that I don't think I disagree
with anything you said.
OTOH the assertion about having one rear wheel in the air was specifically
based on comments about running in the stock class. Back in the late 70's
when I was running stock class with a 76 Scirocco (when they had no sway
bars) it seemed one rear was waving in the air more than they were both on
the ground.
Mostly what you're provoking me to do is get off my dead ass and start
fixing my 81 so sometime this year I can autocross it and start prepping for
FSP. Lotta work there.
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn C Meze <skerocdriver@juno.com>
To: <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
Cc: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Dan's last comment on swaybars (unless provoked)


>
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:16:35 -0500 "Dan Bubb" <jdbubb@ix.netcom.com>
> writes:
> >Christian makes a good point here.
> >Autocrossing a Scirocco means spending alot of time with one rear
> >wheel in the air.
>
>
> OK, ill provoke! Not true. Not in SP. Stock suspended VW's do this as a
> result from stock components and geometry. A properly setup VW in SP will
> barely, if at all, lift the inside rear wheel in a turn.
>
>
>
> >A lot of it depends on how you drive. If you approach corners
> >slowly and power out, a big rear bar may be the ticket. If you burn
> >into
> >corners and count on trailing throttle oversteer to pivot and slow the
> >car
> >adding a bigger rear bar may cause the rear end to come around too
> >fast.
>
> OK, it really depends on:
> 1) the car
> 2) the driver
>
> Not all cars will perform the same with the exact same components bolted
> to them. That's #1. The driver part of it is fairly complex and to be as
> vague as possible (allow my "Chris" moment here if you will.) just
> depends on how the driver is comfortable in what the car is doing. This
> could be good driving habits and this could be bad driving habits. Just
> depends on the driver.
>
> Most novice drivers almost NEVER enter a corner too slow. The only
> experienced students ive ever ridden with who enter turns too slow are
> honestly, older people (50-65 yr bracket), usually corvette drivers too
> FWIW. ( how do you think I beat the Z06's to win the "SS" championship
> this year?! LOL!!)
>
> To get back on topic just a little, I have my 82 Scirocco setup for FSP.
> Its about 80% what it should be to be competitive but, its a daily driver
> and that why im building the 79 Scirocco. With the suspension the way it
> is, I need a 28mm rear bar WITH a stock rear bar installed inverted. So I
> have essentially a 42mm rear bar on the car with a 22mm front bar sitting
> on H&R Group G race springs. Koni's are set to full stiff in the rear,
> full soft in the front. I adjust for over/understeer with mostly rear
> tire pressures and can fine tune it with front pressures.
>
> On some cars, this setup would make the car spin like a top. On my car
> its what ive figured out, over the years to what works and what doesn't.
> For the most part, people really need to find out for themselves via
> trial and error, what works for them and their car and what doesn't. I do
> know that installing a 16v rear bar wont make much of a difference over
> the stock bar. At least not like what some folks are fearing.
>
> Now, going fast into a turn and trail braking is something that, with a
> FWD car I find extremely usefull! I can basically trail brake all the way
> to the apex and then right away, throttle off the corner. Once you figure
> out how to do this, it A) feels great and B) will shead a few tenths off
> your time. Add up 25 turns and you've found speed and people are
> scratching their heads thinking they need more HP. Funny too. It takes a
> while to figure out how much speed to cary into a turn but that just
> comes with seat time.
>
> Another thing with suspension setups. I find that to be fast, you got to
> set it up right one the edge. You do want some oversteer to help rotate
> thru the corners but it needs to be controllable oversteer. Of course a
> quaife helps to pull you out of a turn when you've crossed the line
> between oversteer and a spin. :)
>
> I waited til this thread was dead before jumping in with all this
> gar-bage. So, discuss, and have fun! Anybody interested in doing a track
> event school in Pahrump Nevada at the end of March where ill be doing
> some racey-teaching things, e-mail me for details.
>
>
> Shawn Méze  (has left the building!)
> 86' Jetta GLi 8V     84' Scirocco 8V    88' Corvette -SS 30- 2001 SDR
> Solo2 Champion
> 82' Scirocco GTi -FSP 54-     79' "Project FSP Scirocco"
> The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and best looking Scirocco(s) in all of
> San Diego!
> http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm
>
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