on "euro" injection.....

[jdbubb@ix.netcom.com (Dan Bubb)]

The bottom line summation is...
CIS, CIS-e and Euro CIS all have the same restriction to air flow. Namely,
the metering plate that moves up and down in the cone as mass air
flow/engine load increase or decrease. Changing from one system to the other
isn't going to change airflow restriction, so it isn't going to change power
potential as long as you're able to obtain the A/F ratio required for
maximum power.
A/F ratio can be changed 3 ways:
1.) Adjusting the idle mixture screw. This moves the "control plunger"
(Official term from the Bosch Technical Instruction for CIS; hereon referred
to as "OTB")/ metering piston relative to the metering plate. Assume an
engine at idle uses 15hp just to maintain idle speed or roughly 10% of the
systems capability. Richening the idle mixture 10% from a desired 14.7:1 to
~13.2:1 moves the control plunger 10% of what's required for 15hp, but only
1% of what's required for 150 hp. (which is about where Andrew's at!!)
You'll end up with major starting/cold running/idle problems long before
you'll make any difference in full throttle mixture!
2.) Control pressure. This is the fuel pressure that bears on the top of the
control plunger (OTB) resisting meter plate movement and is controlled by
the "warm up regulator" (OTB) which is more commonly known as the "control
pressure regulator" for obvious reasons. The CIS system reduces this
pressure for the richer mixtures required for cold starting and cold
running. Reducing control pressure reduces resistance to meter plate
movement. The meter plate moves higher, uncovering more metering slit,
producing a richer mixture. This is the strategy used by the Audi 5000 turbo
to richen the mixture under boost. How this could be made to work with an NA
engine is beyond me.
3.) Frequency valve. The frequency valve controls the pressure in the "lower
chamber" (OTB). Basically, the fuel for each cylinder is fed into a pipe
facing a diaphragm between the lower chamber and the "upper chamber" (OTB).
If pressure in the lower chamber increases the diaphragm moves towards the
fuel delivery pipe and restricts fuel flow.  If the frequency valve has a
high open percentage the lower chamber pressure is reduced allowing more
fuel into the fuel delivery pipe/injector. Adjusting the frequency valve %
open changes fuel delivery/A/F ratio. On systems with an O2 sensor this is
the easiest approach to change A/F ratio since it can be done with a 1K pot
wired in the appropriate place.

The thick lipped Euro cone simply means the cone sides are steeper which
means the metering plate will ride higher for a given air flow producing a
richer mixture. Regular CIS-e can replicate this richer mixture by diddling
the frequency valve % open electronically. (as you Goddamned well know from
your dyno runs!)

I don't see any benefit to "Euro" CIS. There is NO benefit to airflow and
fuel flow can be made to meet or exceed the amount required to run overly
rich even with CIS-e!
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Stauffer <andrew.stauffer@cannondale.com>
To: <mk1gti@yahoogroups.com>; 'scirocco list' <scirocco-L@scirocco.org>;
<vwautox@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: on "euro" injection.....


> Okay gang, it's winter time, garage projects are well underway,  there
isn't
> much seat time, a good time to do some bench racing and
> engineering................
>
> The topic is CIS"euro injection".  I'm going to ramble on a bit about the
> subject, please correct or adjust my thinking as necessary.
> At any rate, this has puzzled me for some time and I'd love to hear some
> thoughts.   AutoXers, I know this is a little OT, but please bear with me,
> there isn't alot of traffic these days.......
>
> Euro Injection- It's a thick lipped 80mm CIS flow cone/fuel dist/control
> pressure(or warm up reg) regulator.   I'm under the impression that it
will
> add some power over conventional CIS and CIS lambda.  This is the way the
> eBay add reads, the way that RPI sells it, and the way that the end users
> seem to feel about it from conversations that I've had.   In a nutshell,
it
> drops the O2 sensor/frequency valve from the fueling equation, runs
richer,
> and therefore provides more power.  Accurate so far?
>
> But-and here's where I get confused- If I want my CIS lamda fueled 2.0 8v
> motor to get a richer mixture, I can dial it in with the 3mm mixture
control
> adjustment in the airbox/fuel dist.   So I'm left to wonder, if I
unplugged
> the O2 sensor and dialed in more richness, were is the benefit to Euro
> injection over this?  I know from experimenting/experience that unplugging
> the sensor will result in higher emissions and lower mpg, as I'm told the
> Euro inj will.   I don't see where the euro inj is any diff than cis
lambda
> with the O2 sensor unplugged.  Anyone got any ideas on that?      Doing
this
> for CIS lambda will make the full throttle enrichment non functional,
which
> is not a good thing in my experience.  Dan Bubb can back me on this.  Is
the
> Euro inj air cone shaped such that this full throttle enrichment is not
> necessary, it's already "in there" and accounted for?
>
>
> Going beyond this simple a/f mixture adjustment , I've heard folks say
that
> you could also reshim the control pressure reg. in the fuel dist
itself(not
> the block mounted cpr or warm up reg), and arrive at a richer(via higher
> system pressure) mixture.  What's  this offer that dialing in a richer
> mixture as above  via the 3mm  does not?    I assume you'd have to uplug
> the O2 sensor for this trick to be of any benefit, but again, I must be
> missing something.  I have never tried this, no first hand experience.
But
> again, richer is richer, there must be a reason that this doesn't equate
to
> "euro" standards as well.   Still with me?
>
> The crux of the issue:  If I want rich, I can get rich with the stock
stuff.
> So if there is truly any benefit to euro injection, it doesn't soley lie
in
> it's ability to run rich.  What makes this stuff special?  It comes highly
> recommended from some, I'm thinking it's supposed performance benefits
> wouldn't be that hard to emulate with any ole CIS fuel dist.
>
>  Whaddya think?
>
>
> Andrew Stauffer
> Cannondale Purchasing
> www.cannondale.com
> andrew.stauffer@cannondale.com
> ph. 814 623 4516
> fax 814 623 8917
>
>
>
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