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Is this a good theory?(was: shouldn't have turned on the A/C!!)
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Rob,
The a/c isnt driven with anything that has to do with the timing belt tensioner. Here is my theory:
I believe the keyway on your crankshaft pulley did not engage fully when your mechanic did the work (or the key fell out on him and he didnt catch it). I also believe that the crank pulley shifted by a few degrees when it slipped. Here is how this solution follows your symptoms:
1. Problem occured when a/c turned on: The tensioner may have nothing to do with load from the a/c compressor, but the crank pulley would be effected, since it also drives the accessory pulleys. Increased load from the a/c compressor may have been just enough to put it over the edge.
2. Starter turns faster now: Once the crank pulley slips, your compression is toast since the timing is all off. In your case it may be so severe that you have an intake/exhaust valve open as you reach TDC. This will spill out the air you are compressing, making less work for the starter, thus the faster cranking speed.
As for the mechanic thing, if he messed with the timing belt, he probably messed with the crank pulley, so he should be liable.
P.S. Do yourself a favor and dont crank it anymore with the starter. You may be tempting fate. Rotate the crank with a ratchet and put the engine at what you think is TDC (from cam timing mark, crank pulley mark, etc). Then check real crank position (via the flywheel through the upper hole on the tranny housing). Most likely you will NOT see the timing mark. Rotate the crank till you see the mark, compare to the cam pulley mark and see just how far it is off.
Hope this helps ya.
Allyn
Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Cotner
To: scirocco-l@scirocco.org
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 4:38 PM
Subject: Is this a good theory?(was: shouldn't have turned on the A/C!!)
Well my original message basically stated that I was driving down the road and decided to turn on my A/C. Once I did that, the car ran for perhaps 4 seconds, and then died and would not restart. The timing belt had been replaced 200 miles ago.
I towed it home and found that it has compression (I just had a friend stick is finger in front of the spark plug hole to make sure it sucked and pushed) , as well as spark. the camshaft does move(timing belt not broke) I also checked all the fuses, they were good. So that leaves fuel and timing, right? Well my theory is that perhaps the mechanic, who finished the car just a week ago(this was the first time I turned on the A/C since) didn't tighten the timing belt tensioner enough (or something like that), and the timing belt slipped a few teeth with the extra power the A/C compressor demanded. After it wouldn't start it also seemed that the starter whirred a bit faster, actually quite a bit faster. Could this be because the timing is making it easy on the starter(the pistons just push air out the valves, and don't have to work against compression?) If this is true, should my mechanic(who is a rather nice guy actually) be liable, as in he should just fix it for f
Rob
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rob,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The a/c isnt driven =
with=20
anything that has to do with the timing belt tensioner. </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Here is my theory:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I believe the keyway =
on your=20
crankshaft pulley did not engage fully when your mechanic did the work =
(or the=20
key fell out on him and he didnt catch it). I also believe that the =
crank pulley=20
shifted by a few degrees when it slipped. Here is how this solution =
follows your=20
symptoms:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. Problem occured when a/c turned on: =
The=20
tensioner may have nothing to do with load from the a/c compressor, but =
the=20
crank pulley would be effected, since it also drives the accessory =
pulleys.=20
Increased load from the a/c compressor may have been just enough to put =
it over=20
the edge.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. Starter turns faster now: Once =
the crank=20
pulley slips, your compression is toast since the timing is all =
off. In=20
your case it may be so severe that you have an intake/exhaust valve open =
as you=20
reach TDC. This will spill out the air you are compressing, making less =
work for=20
the starter, thus the faster cranking speed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> As for the mechanic =
thing, if he=20
messed with the timing belt, he probably messed with the crank pulley, =
so he=20
should be liable.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>P.S. Do yourself a favor and dont crank =
it anymore=20
with the starter. You may be tempting fate. Rotate the crank with a =
ratchet and=20
put the engine at what you think is TDC (from cam timing mark, crank =
pulley=20
mark, etc). Then check real crank position (via the flywheel through the =
upper=20
hole on the tranny housing). Most likely you will NOT see the timing =
mark.=20
Rotate the crank till you see the mark, compare to the cam =
pulley mark=20
and see just how far it is off.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope this helps ya.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Allyn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN<BR>87 =
Rieger GTO=20
Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)<BR>86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo =
Scirocco=20
GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)<BR>87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily =
driver, 260k,=20
0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drobw_zz@hotmail.com href=3D"mailto:robw_zz@hotmail.com";>Rob =
Cotner</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 24, 2002 =
4:38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Is this a good =
theory?(was:=20
shouldn't have turned on the A/C!!)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Well my original message basically stated that I was driving down =
the road=20
and decided to turn on my A/C. Once I did that, the car ran for =
perhaps=20
4 seconds, and then died and would not restart. The timing belt =
had been=20
replaced 200 miles ago.</P>
<P>I towed it home and found that it has compression (I just had a =
friend=20
stick is finger in front of the spark plug hole to make sure it sucked =
and=20
pushed) , as well as spark. the camshaft does move(timing belt =
not=20
broke) I also checked all the fuses, they were good. So =
that=20
leaves fuel and timing, right? Well my theory is that perhaps =
the=20
mechanic, who finished the car just a week ago(this was the first time =
I=20
turned on the A/C since) didn't tighten the timing belt tensioner =
enough (or=20
something like that), and the timing belt slipped a few teeth with the =
extra=20
power the A/C compressor demanded. After it wouldn't start it =
also=20
seemed that the starter whirred a bit faster, actually quite a bit=20
faster. Could this be because the timing is making it easy on =
the=20
starter(the pistons just push air out the valves, and don't have to =
work=20
against compression?) If this is true, should my mechanic(who is =
a=20
rather nice guy actually) be liable, as in he should just fix it for f =
<P>Rob<BR><BR><BR></P>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
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mailing=20
list Scirocco-l@scirocco.org =
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