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Suspension travel modification?



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No. Channeling the body DOWNwards on the chassis.
Like we used to do the old '32 Fords and '49 Mercs.
Sort of the opposite of a truck body lift....

Larry
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Vince Royer=20
  To: L F ; Neal Tovsen ; Drew Teague ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 8:08 AM
  Subject: RE: Suspension travel modification?


  You mean channelling all the mounting points upwards?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: L F [mailto:rocco16v@netzero.net]
    Sent: December 25, 2002 6:19 AM
    To: vince@performancecarstereo.com; Neal Tovsen; Drew Teague; =
scirocco-l@scirocco.org
    Subject: Re: Suspension travel modification?


    One-word answer to your problem:

    channel

    Larry
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Vince Royer=20
      To: Neal Tovsen ; Drew Teague ; scirocco-l@scirocco.org=20
      Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:15 PM
      Subject: RE: Suspension travel modification?


      I would love to modify my suspension travel so that I can tuck all =
my wheels
      deep into my fenders and still have stock-like handling.  mmmm...

      I figure I would have to rework the front upper strut mounts, =
notch the
      frame, and somehow modify the pickup points as mentioned below to =
save the
      geometry from getting too screwed up.  I think that would be dope.

      Vince


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org
      > [mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org]On Behalf Of Neal Tovsen
      > Sent: December 24, 2002 11:57 AM
      > To: Drew Teague; scirocco-l@scirocco.org
      > Subject: Re: Suspension travel modification?
      >
      >
      > > Is there a
      > > suspension setup that
      > > would effectively increase the suspension travel for
      > > off-road applications?
      > > That would be worth doing, even if not to race, just
      > > to off-road.  It would
      > > be nice to be able to use larger tires, too. (clear
      > > the wheelwells?)
      > > Something tells me it might end up taking a decent
      > > amount of fabrication.
      >
      > Well, the A1 suspension travel really isn't all that
      > short. If you want to see an example of a short-travel
      > suspension, take a look at a Neon sometime.
      >
      > However, it isn't very long either, and as we
      > discussed, there are much better choices than an A1
      > for rally or off-road use. The Subaru Impreza, for
      > example, has HUGE suspension travel compared to the
      > Scirocco (gee...maybe that has something to do with a
      > certain WRC design strategy!).
      >
      > The Scirocco's droop suspension travel could be
      > lengthened with custom extra-long struts, but I would
      > guess that it would cause toe and camber problems if
      > you extend the control arm too much further down than
      > stock.
      >
      > You could theoretically also increase the bump
      > suspension travel quite a ways without hitting the
      > fender with the tire as long as you don't run a huge
      > tire. Running a shorter body strut would give you some
      > extra travel. However, you'll find that the limiting
      > factor is when the driveshaft contacts the frame rail,
      > especially on the longer passenger side shaft. This is
      > a major headache for Street-Prepared autocross cars
      > who can't lower the car like they want. The
      > Prepared-class autocrossers are allowed to notch the
      > frame rail and reinforce it to allow for more bump
      > travel.
      >
      > I'm personally considering mimicing the Golf Syncro
      > front driveshaft layout (without the differential)
      > someday in the future for my Street Modified Scirocco.
      > It actually utilizes equal-length CV joints by
      > relocating the passenger side CV ouboard closer to the
      > framerail (mirroring the driver's side). With the CV
      > joint moved to near the frame rail, you can get more
      > upward articulation before the driveshaft contacts the
      > frame.
      >
      > In the end, it is difficult to modify a strut
      > suspension for longer travel than it was designed for.
      > The dynamic camber and toe changes make things
      > difficult unless you plan to relocate the strut and
      > control arm pickup points...
      >
      > Neal
      >
      > __________________________________________________
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      >


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No. Channeling the body DOWNwards on =
the=20
chassis.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Like we used to do the old '32 Fords =
and '49=20
Mercs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sort of the opposite of a truck body=20
lift....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:vince@performancecarstereo.com"=20
  title=3Dvince@performancecarstereo.com>Vince Royer</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:rocco16v@netzero.net"=20
  title=3Drocco16v@netzero.net>L F</A> ; <A =
href=3D"mailto:nealtovsen@yahoo.com"=20
  title=3Dnealtovsen@yahoo.com>Neal Tovsen</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:roccnroll@hotmail.com"; =
title=3Droccnroll@hotmail.com>Drew=20
  Teague</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"=20
  title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 25, =
2002 8:08=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Suspension travel=20
  modification?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D975570716-25122002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>You=20
  mean channelling all the mounting points upwards?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
    <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> L F [<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:rocco16v@netzero.net";>mailto:rocco16v@netzero.net</A>]<BR>=
<B>Sent:</B>=20
    December 25, 2002 6:19 AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:vince@performancecarstereo.com";>vince@performancecarstereo=
.com</A>;=20
    Neal Tovsen; Drew Teague; <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A><BR><B=
>Subject:</B>=20
    Re: Suspension travel modification?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One-word answer to your =
problem:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>channel</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A href=3D"mailto:vince@performancecarstereo.com"=20
      title=3Dvince@performancecarstereo.com>Vince Royer</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:nealtovsen@yahoo.com"; =
title=3Dnealtovsen@yahoo.com>Neal=20
      Tovsen</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:roccnroll@hotmail.com"=20
      title=3Droccnroll@hotmail.com>Drew Teague</A> ; <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org"=20
      title=3Dscirocco-l@scirocco.org>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 24, =
2002 1:15=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Suspension =
travel=20
      modification?</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>I would love to modify my suspension travel so that =
I can=20
      tuck all my wheels<BR>deep into my fenders and still have =
stock-like=20
      handling.&nbsp; mmmm...<BR><BR>I figure I would have to rework the =
front=20
      upper strut mounts, notch the<BR>frame, and somehow modify the =
pickup=20
      points as mentioned below to save the<BR>geometry from getting too =
screwed=20
      up.&nbsp; I think that would be dope.<BR><BR>Vince<BR><BR><BR>&gt; =

      -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: <A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.o=
rg</A><BR>&gt;=20
      [<A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l-admin@scirocco.org";>mailto:scirocco-l-admin@sci=
rocco.org</A>]On=20
      Behalf Of Neal Tovsen<BR>&gt; Sent: December 24, 2002 11:57 =
AM<BR>&gt; To:=20
      Drew Teague; <A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A><BR>&g=
t;=20
      Subject: Re: Suspension travel =
modification?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
      Is there a<BR>&gt; &gt; suspension setup that<BR>&gt; &gt; would=20
      effectively increase the suspension travel for<BR>&gt; &gt; =
off-road=20
      applications?<BR>&gt; &gt; That would be worth doing, even if not =
to race,=20
      just<BR>&gt; &gt; to off-road.&nbsp; It would<BR>&gt; &gt; be nice =
to be=20
      able to use larger tires, too. (clear<BR>&gt; &gt; the=20
      wheelwells?)<BR>&gt; &gt; Something tells me it might end up =
taking a=20
      decent<BR>&gt; &gt; amount of fabrication.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, =
the A1=20
      suspension travel really isn't all that<BR>&gt; short. If you want =
to see=20
      an example of a short-travel<BR>&gt; suspension, take a look at a =
Neon=20
      sometime.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; However, it isn't very long either, and =
as=20
      we<BR>&gt; discussed, there are much better choices than an =
A1<BR>&gt; for=20
      rally or off-road use. The Subaru Impreza, for<BR>&gt; example, =
has HUGE=20
      suspension travel compared to the<BR>&gt; Scirocco (gee...maybe =
that has=20
      something to do with a<BR>&gt; certain WRC design=20
      strategy!).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Scirocco's droop suspension travel =
could=20
      be<BR>&gt; lengthened with custom extra-long struts, but I =
would<BR>&gt;=20
      guess that it would cause toe and camber problems if<BR>&gt; you =
extend=20
      the control arm too much further down than<BR>&gt; =
stock.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
      You could theoretically also increase the bump<BR>&gt; suspension =
travel=20
      quite a ways without hitting the<BR>&gt; fender with the tire as =
long as=20
      you don't run a huge<BR>&gt; tire. Running a shorter body strut =
would give=20
      you some<BR>&gt; extra travel. However, you'll find that the=20
      limiting<BR>&gt; factor is when the driveshaft contacts the frame=20
      rail,<BR>&gt; especially on the longer passenger side shaft. This=20
      is<BR>&gt; a major headache for Street-Prepared autocross =
cars<BR>&gt; who=20
      can't lower the car like they want. The<BR>&gt; Prepared-class=20
      autocrossers are allowed to notch the<BR>&gt; frame rail and =
reinforce it=20
      to allow for more bump<BR>&gt; travel.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm =
personally=20
      considering mimicing the Golf Syncro<BR>&gt; front driveshaft =
layout=20
      (without the differential)<BR>&gt; someday in the future for my =
Street=20
      Modified Scirocco.<BR>&gt; It actually utilizes equal-length CV =
joints=20
      by<BR>&gt; relocating the passenger side CV ouboard closer to =
the<BR>&gt;=20
      framerail (mirroring the driver's side). With the CV<BR>&gt; joint =
moved=20
      to near the frame rail, you can get more<BR>&gt; upward =
articulation=20
      before the driveshaft contacts the<BR>&gt; frame.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
In the=20
      end, it is difficult to modify a strut<BR>&gt; suspension for =
longer=20
      travel than it was designed for.<BR>&gt; The dynamic camber and =
toe=20
      changes make things<BR>&gt; difficult unless you plan to relocate =
the=20
      strut and<BR>&gt; control arm pickup points...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
      Neal<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
      __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do you=20
      Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up=20
      now.<BR>&gt; <A=20
      =
href=3D"http://mailplus.yahoo.com";>http://mailplus.yahoo.com</A><BR>&gt;<=
BR>&gt;=20
      _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Scirocco-l =
mailing=20
      list<BR>&gt; <A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:Scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A><BR>&g=
t;=20
      <A=20
      =
href=3D"http://neubayern.net/mailman/listinfo/scirocco-l";>http://neubayer=
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_______________________________<BR>Scirocco-l=20
      mailing list<BR><A=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:Scirocco-l@scirocco.org";>Scirocco-l@scirocco.org</A><BR><A=
=20
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