stubborn rieger / engine problems (update #4 - fixed)

[amalventano1@comcast.net (Allyn)]

...so i got depserate and decided to tear into all those boxes o parts i got lying around. Go
figure, in one of the first boxes i look in is the complete upper air box portion, complete with
fuel filter, dpr, fuel distributor, pretty much ready to bolt up. I commence to tearing into the
reiger, yank the old box, install the new box (took me <1 hour, im a trained professional, dont try
this at home :), jump in and go to start it... starts, sputters out, dies. Hrm, no biggie, try
again. This time nothing at all. Figure there is air in the filter/dist/etc. Cycle key a few times,
notice that fuel pump goes slower and slower until its struggling more than i've ever heard a cis
pump struggle. Try to start it, still no go. Rap on fuel pressure regulator with my trysty crescent
wrench. Jump in, turn key (fuel pump sounds much happier this time), starts up! Stumbles a bit as
all the air is bled through the injectors. After about a minute i'm at a smooth idle with a dpr of
about 1 ma (and fluctuating!, woohoo!). I do some quick tweaks to get dpr current to a more happy 8
ma and i'm off for a drive. Not only is the problem gone, but it runs better than it did before!
This could possibly be due to my changing plugs and the coil. Anyhow, sorry i kinda fixed this
before most had a chance to respond. I'm off to do some cleanup and put all my crap away.

Side note: i've gathered so much darn knowledge/testing experience today that i'll bring the test
stuff i put together with me to cincy and will check out anyones ke system for 'em (that includes
you, daun).

Later!

Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6) - back to runnin like bat-outta-hell
86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: stubborn rieger / engine problems (update #3 - dpr wanted)


> Disregard the oxs being bad. i had the meter on wrong. connected correctly i get .1v when first
> started, steady rise up to ~.8v when the oxs is warm (after ~ 1 minute).
>
> OK, here we go. Ran the meter around and into the car so i could get a reading of dpr current with
> the car on the road. After starting i get 10 ma which settles down to 0 ma after a minute (just
like
> before). Under full throttle acceleration i get ~+15 ma. While coasting down in 3rd from about 4k
> rpm i get the -53 ma that im supposed to get (coast down fuel cut), but whats weird is that i dont
> get the increased decelleration from the engine. Its as if the dpr is getting the current to cut
> fuel, but it isnt doing so. I also have a feeling that its running rich (getting puffs o fuel if i
> rev it when its hot).
> This kind of jives with the dpr going to 0 ma when it idles in closed loop. 0 ma means the cis-e
box
> is trying to reduce fuel flow as much as possible (but the dpr isnt actually doing what its
supposed
> to, especially if its just wide open).
>
> *note* the fuel distributor on this car is about 1 year old (but the dpr may have been taken from
> the old one and put on the new one when it was swapped).
>
> Now, who has a 16v dpr lying around?
> Al
>
> Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
> 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
> 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels :)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
> To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: stubborn rieger / engine problems (update #2)
>
>
> > did some more testing:
> > (following tests done at the cis-e box connector)
> > - throttle body wot and closed switches: good (~1 ohm closed)
> > - coolant temp sensor: good (abt 1.4k when cold, was abt 200 ohms when hot)
> > - air flow plate potentiometer: found intermittent contact along its range, particularly in the
2k
> > ohm range (full range is 1k to 5k). Disassembled and cleaned potentiometer. Reassembled and
> > retested, good movement through range. Went for drive: problems still exist.
> > - dpr current: with engine warm and ignition on i get 10 ma (expected). shorting the o2 sensor
> > 'green wire' (heater) to ground results in a steady rise to 20 ma over a 20 sec period
(expected).
> > start engine, check meter, steady at 10 ma (expected for post start). Over 1 minute period dpr
> > current drops stradily to 0.0 ma and stays there (it should begin fluctuating in closed loop,
not
> go
> > to 0 and stay there, this is a problem). Rev engine and snap throttle closed: current snaps
to -50
> > ma and back to 0 when returns to idle (expected, but should be returning to fluctuating current,
> not
> > 0).
> > - check o2 sensor resistance: 6 ohms. o2 sensor voltage: 0 volts with engine running (what
should
> i
> > see here on a good o2 sensor?).
> >
> > ** what equivalent o2 sensor can i get that will replace a 3 wire on our cars? i heard something
> > about a mustang one or something a while back... ***
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Al
> >
> > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
> > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
> > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels
:)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Allyn" <amalventano1@comcast.net>
> > To: "scirocco list" <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:20 PM
> > Subject: stubborn rieger / engine problems
> >
> >
> > > My string of good luck has ended.
> > > Problem: (noticed increased random missing when hot at idle over past few weeks). Car ran
fine,
> > then
> > > sputtered under acceleration (as if one cylinder wasnt firing). During this minute it only
> missed
> > > under load (revs freely when not loaded, no misses). After ~1 minute the sputtering went away
> but
> > > there was a noticable (not major) loss of power under load. The loss of power doesnt seem to
be
> > from
> > > any one cylinder. Car is still drivable. Revs freely as it ever did with no misses. The next
> time
> > i
> > > drove it, i had the same power loss, but noticed a sputtering that occurs only when coming off
> the
> > > throttle (under load). No sputtering occurs under acceleration, only the slight power loss.
> Engine
> > > coasts down cleanly when off of pedal (no sputtering). The sputter only occurs under partial
> > > throttle and especially when coming off of full throttle. Still no stuttering while free
reving.
> > >
> > > What was done so far:
> > > Change plugs: no effect (old plugs were clean, all 4 looked identical, no sign of plugs being
> > > cause).
> > > Remove/inspect plug wires: (neuspeed wires), all wires had consistent resistance, even with
> wires
> > > wet.
> > > Swapped coil with another one: no effect, same exact symptoms.
> > > Checked ignition timing: Dead on, no adjustment necessary.
> > > Checked cam timing: dead on.
> > > *at this point i let the engine idle up to temperature and noted no missing at all, i can only
> > > assume the missing problem was corrected and is not related to the sputtering problem*
> > >
> > > Please let me know any opinions/thoughts. My hunch is possibly something fuel related or
perhaps
> > > something funky with the coil driver.
> > >
> > > Allyn Malventano, ETC(SS), USN
> > > 87 Rieger GTO Scirocco 16v (daily driver, 170k, rocco #6)
> > > 86 Kamei Twin 16V Turbo Scirocco GTX ('it has begun', rocco #7)
> > > 87 Jetta 8v Wolfsburg 2dr (daily driver, 260k, 0 rattles, original clutch, driveshafts, wheels
> :)
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
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