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Re: Speeding is good? No I don't agree... [What is a good driver?] <long>




Jason, glad you see it still as a conversation.

well now we have quite a few things in common, and by your own definition I 
am a professional driver without any training on a race track. (interesting 
that may appeal to my ego, I don't agree.)

a professional driver is someone that drive the care to the edge, almost 
always about to let his car blow in parts on a 1/1000 of second of lack of 
control (read nascar or F1 drivers... 300+KMPH in all sorts of conditions 
with self destructing cars)

A Consiencious driver IS a driver that evaluates proper road condition, that 
know the limits of his car (understandign that his car will roll at 90mph in 
a 25' turn ). that driving 70-MPH on a highway in traffic during the monsoon 
season is not resonable.

Technology as been claiming many lives in cars, telephones, radio now with 
cdroms, Tv sets etc etc etc... that is just a fact that people, the average 
job actually LETS himself be distracted because driving is such a common 
occurence and 90% of the avergae joe on the road beleives they are good 
drivers because they have not had an accident in teh last 2 years of driving 
(as per inforced by inssurance corporations...), this has worsen since the 
arrival of SUV's now they drive tanks and don't even get hurt when they run 
over other peoples car with them.

I consider myself conciensious, many times when the weather turns, the first 
thing to go off is the radio in my car, always surprises my wife, now she is 
quite relax, then the radio goes off, she becomes alert, and instead of a 
passenger, she become co-pilot and becomes a second set of eyes on teh road. 
when it rains, I am always in the right lane, distant from all other drivers 
(space is safety on the road) always making sure there is an escape route in 
case of any problems, and let the morons drive 90mph on the wet road.

Professional drivers (and you can ask and look up any interviews where this 
question has been asked etc... professional drivers, don't jump into their 
cars get on the daily road and drive 100MPH in a 45 MPH zone, because the 
states laws consider that a felony of dangerous driving (2x speed limit). I 
did not make the law, I am just quoting it.
in Texas this law is appended with a 24 hrs in jail, and car impounded.

100MPH (as previously quoted by example in a zone of 45-50MPH) is reckless. 
dangerous, even if you are a consiencious driver, a tire blow out at 100MPH 
on a daily road will take you into a house, a telephone post or even 
worst... that kid admiring how fast you car was coming up the road, just 
before you squash him on the sidewalk and kill him. that is what I am 
talking about.

I am not arguing the speed laws in some areas are below logical explanations 
(I have seen 15MPH limits on 3 lane roads) but in hine-sight the limits are 
what they are NOW, because every hot-rod-head in his mustang and camaro has 
blown and raced on the same road, killed children, injuded others, destroyed 
property etc, and the towns and cities are tired of the massacares because 
these "children" holding a steering wheel. (I am using children not in an 
age sense but in a frame of mind sense)

I may sound like a preacher and perhaps my point of views come being in teh 
70's driving a monster car, able of 9s 1/4 mile racing on street tires, 
being reckless myself, and first accused of my statements above, but I have 
encountered an accident that me realize in the 90's that even if you know 
you car, even if you are carefull, you will have an accident at least once 
in your life, and as "insane" as I might of been in teh past, and probably 
because of it, I got "lucky" ran into a ford 1955 with a Honda civic, I 
walked away from the accident with a bump on my head, the car was totaled. 
the truck has a bent license plate (damn trucks are built tuff in those 
days...) I stopped driving for 2 years, not tyat I was afraid to drive, I 
still held license, I pause my insanity and took 2 years of sabatical with 
passenger cars, and rode my bicycle everywhere. Been driving for 10 year 
continusly now since that famous day, and I beleive I am a far better driver 
because of this than most driver that beleive they are a good driver on the 
road because they have been on teh road for 20 years.

as for my friends, here is the low down
Brian was a professional Motocycle racing driver, he used to drive the 750 
Kawazi Series around the world. he snapped his neck on his harley  after 
someone cut him off he flew over teh car and landed head first into the read 
doors of an 18 wheeler in front of teh car, snmapped his neck, he was going 
75 in a zone of 40.

Dave Use to drive professional stock car races in North america (70's) and I 
already told you that story

My brother, he was not a professional driver, he was just foolish.

Andy used to drive Sprint cars in the USA, the details I got is that he was 
driving ~ 100MPH on the highway (clear day no rain) and some drunk bastard 
on the right lane, saw him coming up on the left lane and decided it would 
be fun to play crash derby with his cadillac. Andy got side-winded, and flew 
into the middle ditch and velocity took him across the bank into opposing 
traffic he ran under an 18 wheeler that never saw him coming and crushed the 
car with his rear wheels.

It will always be hard for me that anyone driving a mass produced car at the 
limit of the edge on public roads is a consiencious driver.

Patrick

----Original Message Follows----
From: 16V Jason <jason@scirocco.org>
To: "Patrick Bureau" <pbureau@home.com>,        "Scirocco List" 
<scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Subject: Re: Speeding is good? No I don't agree... [What is a good  driver?] 
<long>
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 10:54:25 -0500

Patrick et al,
         This is not a flame war, it's a discussion.  We all have different
opinions about many things, and if we didn't, we would have nothing to talk
about.  I like discussions, and the more heated the better, so here goes. :)

         First of all, you have my sincerest sympathy for losing so many of
your friends -- and your brother -- in car accidents.  However, with that
said, I'm somewhat curious from your assertion that 3 of them were all
professional race drivers.  While I do think that professionally trained
race car drivers are likely better able to control their cars at (and
above) the limit, I disagree completely that their training and experience
is a predictor of safe driving on the street.

         A safe driver in my book is one that knows the limits at all
times.  By that, I mean the limits of his* car, the limits of his
abilities, and the limits of all of the people surrounding him.  He is
someone who can drive his car at extraordinarily high speeds under the
right conditions, but someone who has no problem driving slower than
everyone when he feels the conditions aren't right.

         He has a good understanding of physics so that he can predict how
his car will react even when dealing with multiple variables (speed, road
surface, etc).  He pays keen attention to his car's condition and keeps
note of the condition of tires, brakes, etc.   He pays astute attention to
his car's feedback:  any unusual noise or feeling is immediately treated as
a potential threat.

         He is religiously observant of other drivers; watching those both
in front and behind them, and not only anticipating what adverse moves they
could make, but how to avoid incident if they do make a mistake.  He is
constantly planning an escape route.  He risks losing control of his car
only when there is sufficient room to correct without hitting anything.  He
takes risks only where the potential for injury and damage is small.

         He does not show off to friends.  He does not act out in anger at
other drivers.  He does not talk on his cell phone while driving.  The
loudness of his music is indirectly proportional to his perceived danger
level.  And he fully understands the repercussions of an accident.

         He is the guy that's usually travelling above the median speed in
good conditions, and usually below the median speed in bad.  Analyzing risk
as he goes, he's able to find the happy medium on the speed versus safety
continuum -- the point at which he can travel as efficiently as possible.

         I take driving very, very seriously.  It's an art that very few
people master, and I'd like to think I'm on my way.  Driving is an
evolutionary thing, you learn more and more as you drive; mastering it is
not a final goal -- it's a way to get to that goal.  Mastering driving
means always being open to learning new things and adjusting what you
previously thought was "right".

         So with all due respect, if you're ever in a car with me --
whether doing 30mph or 150mph -- you will be absolutely certain that the
conditions are right, or I wouldn't be risking my own life doing
it.  Speeding is a bullshit, brainwashing term.  If the government told you
to drink some Special Kool-Aid, would you?  I certainly wouldn't.  I also
don't let the government tell me what speed is safe to operate my
vehicle.  I calculate that speed on my own... the risk I take is that of a
ticket.  If I'm not in a rush, then I cap my speed and reduce the risk of a
ticket; but it's doubtful it is reducing the risk of an accident.  At the
same time that I despise the artificially low speed limits on most American
highways, I'll be the first one driving at speeds far below them in bad
conditions.  It's the stupid people -- the "sheep" -- who drive at the
speed limit all the time because they naively think it's the "safe" thing
to do.  So, "speeding", in its common usage, is not a term I use.  Speeding
is when you are going too fast for conditions, not when you are 5mph above
some government mandate.  Speeding, in that sense, is dangerous.  Driving
over the posted speed limit is irrelevant as far as safety is concerned.

My $1.25
Jason
*Not intended to be sexist; I'm too lazy to type his/her all the time.







At 10:07 PM 10/31/2001, Patrick Bureau wrote:
>Dear Adam I do have to reply and do try to understand thatthis commentary 
>is
>a conversation and not a bashing of any sorts.
>if you should feel I am doing a personal attack, I would like you to tell 
>me
>and I will make proper apologies.
>
>1) The "doing about 65mph in a 55 zone and this little old granny pulled 
>her
>land yacht right out in front of me.." if you where doing 55 in a 55 zone..
>you would have plenty of time to slow down and WOULD of seen her ahead of
>time.
>
>2) "I drive at high speeds all the time and I have NEVER crashed a vehicle
>or caused an accident of any kind." personally I had a good long time 
>friend
>of mine like you, who used to drive professional racing stock cars, and
>drove his car on the road in teh same way , "I am a professional driver, 
>get
>out of my way attitute" he died after slamming his car into a truck that
>decided he had the right of way with his 18 ton truck... the engine on his
>Maverick 74 backed up into the car 3 and 1/2 feet into the cockpit, he was
>crushed by the steering wheel into his seat and died on impact at the young
>age of 22.
>
>Sorry, and Cannot say that I respect speed limit all the time, in town I do
>stick to speed limits, and on the highway on a clear day I do run 80-90MPH
>on some short "empty" 3 lane highways just for kicks. if we did not enjoy
>"speed" we would all be driving Fort T model 1's.
>
>Though I agree there should be new laws agaisnt young driver (under the age
>of 21) to be allowed to drive over certain areas (like in france for
>example, a new driver has a 90KMPH MAX speed, and is not allowed on
>Highways, nor after dark on roads, and their permit only carries a 3 point
>demerit (normally 17 on a fully licensed driver) for 90 months, these
>drivers are visibly identified on their cars with a big rough black and
>white sticker marked 90. it is not a perfect system (knowing full well from
>personal experience with driving in france many times over) but I am sorry 
>I
>cannot warrant SPEEDING in "in-town streets" and "being a professional" you
>would understand this even more, and you would keep your "speeding" on the
>track and not on the road.
>
>I am not bashing your opinion nor the way you drive, but there are a many
>"young drivers" online that think redlining a 16v 2300 pds vehicule at 
>every
>gear in streets make them invincible, I have seen (lost 4 friends now to
>speeding in cars and motorcycles, 3 were professional race drives, one was
>my brother (at the age of 25, on his birthday, doing 80MPH in a 45MPH zone
>passing in a curve, going uphill, his car plowed into a "caterpillar" , 
>they
>found his body in the back seat on the car...he was passing a group of
>people on bicycles...)
>
>I will state that though any speed above stated speed limit is technically
>considered speeding, 5MPH above speed limit is not mechanically speaking
>speeding, 10MPH over speed limit is. any mechanic can explain and prove 
>that
>the tachometers in any car is as accurate as the specs of the cars and tire
>manufacturer designed the car with, change the wheels and you change this..
>why most cops do not give out ticket for only 5MPH over limit permissible.
>
>Sincerly hoping this willnot start a "flame war" as it is NOT intended as
>so.
>
>Patrick


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