Re: front sway-bar problems

["H Jones" <hjones1@airmail.net>]

Street driving, Solo I and Road Racing.... They all have their own unique
requirements when it comes to suspension setup!

I agree with your observations about the use of a front sway-bar in Solo I,
it will improve your times. In the SCCA Stock class, after-market rear sway
bars are not allowed, but front bars are legal, correct? The relatively low
speeds and the tightness of the average course in Solo I would make the
front bar appealing.

Road racing? It is a totally different story! Dump the front bar and get a
nice big fat 28mm straight rear sway bar, some 400lbs springs and some
re-valved Bilsteins. If the "Shine Setup" (no frt bar / stiff frt springs /
stiff rear bar) is wrong, why is it the most common "winning"  Improved
Touring VW Rabbit / Scirocco setup? BSI , OPM and Shine all sell similar
setups for racing VW's and these 3 outfits will dominate the ARRC each year.

Proper car setup is not dependent on one single setting or factor ( ie. a
frt sway bar), but rather how several components work together to achieve a
well balanced "package" that works (delivering faster lap times and
consistent temperatures across the surface of the tires). There is no
substitute for data and If you want to know what works, break out the
stop-watch and the pyrometer.

With 3 seasons of testing and accumulating data (lap times & tire temps) on
my ITC Scirocco's setup, this is my "base-line" setup when arriving at the
track;

1. 400 lbs springs all around
2. 28 mm rear bar
3. Re-valved Bilstein Sports
4. Hoosier R3S03's, P205/60ZR/13
5. Frt Alignment : - 1 degree camber,  3/16" toe out & +2 Caster
6. Rear Alignment: - 1/2 degree camber & 1/16" toe out
7. Diagonally balance corner-weights (with driver in car & race fuel load)
8. 5.75" Ride Height
9. Front Lower Stress Bar
10. No Front Sway Bar!

Starting with this basic setup, all I need to do is adjust the tire pressure
and camber settings to dial the car in.

----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn C Meze <skerocdriver@juno.com>
To: <hjones1@airmail.net>
Cc: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: front sway-bar problems


>
> On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:07:56 -0500 "H Jones" <hjones1@airmail.net>
> writes:
> >The best solution would be to remove the bar completely.
>
>
> I couldnt disagree more.
>
>
> >The Scirocco will understeer / push even without a front bar.
>
>
> That should read:
> The Scirocco will understeer / push even WORSE without a front bar.
> Since the front of the car is allowed to roll much more in the corners,
> your camber changes are exaggerated to the point of having way too much
> positive camber. +camber is only good if your planning on running on an
> oval and its on the left side of the car..... :)
>
>
> >Dump the front bar and install a "beefy" rear bar. If the front
> >bar was being used to control body-roll, get stiffer springs.
>
>
> >From a cost effective standpoint, (Which, about 98% of the list members
> are always working from) this surely isn't the solution.
> Your advice is only good for road course setup. For the street and autox
> its IMHO just plain wrong.
>
> I autocross my Scirocco. I have a 28mm rear bar with the 16V rear bar
> inverted. I removed the front bar on a practice day to "test" shines No
> Front Bar theory. Im sure that if I were to spend the cash on some
> stiffer front springs, it could work somewhat. There's no way to use a
> stiff enough spring to make the car fast and still retain the camber in
> the corners without a front swaybar. Sure you can get on the gas sooner
> but what good is that if the car wont turn? On a road course im sure the
> NFB system works great. Obviously it has or they wouldn't be in business.
>
> On the street, my gawd, 500lb front springs on the street? Not even fun.
> To me the solution is really simple, get a front swaybar that doesn't
> break the hardware.
>
>
> >Your Rocco will handle much better without the front bar!
>
>
> Ewww. Scarry. I never thought it handled better.
>
>
>
>               Shawn Meze
> 86' Jetta GLi           82' Scirocco GTi
> The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and
> best looking Scirocco in all of San Diego!
> http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
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