Re: front sway-bar problems

[J Buck <vwpride@mixi.net>]

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't know that the original poster of this
message was putting together an IT car.  I thought they were putting together a
street/performance package.   I stated there is validity in different setups for
different applications, and I think Shawn would agree.  But the no front bar
setup seems to only be practical on the track.

jim

H Jones wrote:

> Street driving, Solo I and Road Racing.... They all have their own unique
> requirements when it comes to suspension setup!
>
> I agree with your observations about the use of a front sway-bar in Solo I,
> it will improve your times. In the SCCA Stock class, after-market rear sway
> bars are not allowed, but front bars are legal, correct? The relatively low
> speeds and the tightness of the average course in Solo I would make the
> front bar appealing.
>
> Road racing? It is a totally different story! Dump the front bar and get a
> nice big fat 28mm straight rear sway bar, some 400lbs springs and some
> re-valved Bilsteins. If the "Shine Setup" (no frt bar / stiff frt springs /
> stiff rear bar) is wrong, why is it the most common "winning"  Improved
> Touring VW Rabbit / Scirocco setup? BSI , OPM and Shine all sell similar
> setups for racing VW's and these 3 outfits will dominate the ARRC each year.
>
> Proper car setup is not dependent on one single setting or factor ( ie. a
> frt sway bar), but rather how several components work together to achieve a
> well balanced "package" that works (delivering faster lap times and
> consistent temperatures across the surface of the tires). There is no
> substitute for data and If you want to know what works, break out the
> stop-watch and the pyrometer.
>
> With 3 seasons of testing and accumulating data (lap times & tire temps) on
> my ITC Scirocco's setup, this is my "base-line" setup when arriving at the
> track;
>
> 1. 400 lbs springs all around
> 2. 28 mm rear bar
> 3. Re-valved Bilstein Sports
> 4. Hoosier R3S03's, P205/60ZR/13
> 5. Frt Alignment : - 1 degree camber,  3/16" toe out & +2 Caster
> 6. Rear Alignment: - 1/2 degree camber & 1/16" toe out
> 7. Diagonally balance corner-weights (with driver in car & race fuel load)
> 8. 5.75" Ride Height
> 9. Front Lower Stress Bar
> 10. No Front Sway Bar!
>
> Starting with this basic setup, all I need to do is adjust the tire pressure
> and camber settings to dial the car in.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Shawn C Meze <skerocdriver@juno.com>
> To: <hjones1@airmail.net>
> Cc: <scirocco-l@scirocco.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 1:10 PM
> Subject: Re: front sway-bar problems
>
> >
> > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:07:56 -0500 "H Jones" <hjones1@airmail.net>
> > writes:
> > >The best solution would be to remove the bar completely.
> >
> >
> > I couldnt disagree more.
> >
> >
> > >The Scirocco will understeer / push even without a front bar.
> >
> >
> > That should read:
> > The Scirocco will understeer / push even WORSE without a front bar.
> > Since the front of the car is allowed to roll much more in the corners,
> > your camber changes are exaggerated to the point of having way too much
> > positive camber. +camber is only good if your planning on running on an
> > oval and its on the left side of the car..... :)
> >
> >
> > >Dump the front bar and install a "beefy" rear bar. If the front
> > >bar was being used to control body-roll, get stiffer springs.
> >
> >
> > >From a cost effective standpoint, (Which, about 98% of the list members
> > are always working from) this surely isn't the solution.
> > Your advice is only good for road course setup. For the street and autox
> > its IMHO just plain wrong.
> >
> > I autocross my Scirocco. I have a 28mm rear bar with the 16V rear bar
> > inverted. I removed the front bar on a practice day to "test" shines No
> > Front Bar theory. Im sure that if I were to spend the cash on some
> > stiffer front springs, it could work somewhat. There's no way to use a
> > stiff enough spring to make the car fast and still retain the camber in
> > the corners without a front swaybar. Sure you can get on the gas sooner
> > but what good is that if the car wont turn? On a road course im sure the
> > NFB system works great. Obviously it has or they wouldn't be in business.
> >
> > On the street, my gawd, 500lb front springs on the street? Not even fun.
> > To me the solution is really simple, get a front swaybar that doesn't
> > break the hardware.
> >
> >
> > >Your Rocco will handle much better without the front bar!
> >
> >
> > Ewww. Scarry. I never thought it handled better.
> >
> >
> >
> >               Shawn Meze
> > 86' Jetta GLi           82' Scirocco GTi
> > The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and
> > best looking Scirocco in all of San Diego!
> > http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
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>
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