Re: Corrado Brakes -- Physics Question: Are they pointless?

[Shawn C Meze <skerocdriver@juno.com>]

On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 12:17:06 -0500 16V JASON <jason@scirocco.org> writes:

>	I did, sweetie darling.  


I can just see you fluttering your eyelashes while you typed that. LOL!



>>Riley, is he molesting you again? Doesn't this violate your probation
>>Jason?!
>
>	And you accuse ME of smoking Crack?!


if the shoe fits.... :)


>See, that's where you're neglecting the one point which makes your
>argument moot:  Since we've agreed that it's the tires which limit the
>OVERALL braking ability of the car, adding 22" rotors won't make the car
>stop any faster under full braking.  So, it's not a safety cushion.


Sure it is. Since you can use out of this world examples like snow tires
(Like you did in another post which was weak I might add, ---->sweetie.)
I will interject my own, thank you very much. 

Who's to say he cant upgrade to a stickier street tire? Im sure if he is
after the better street performer, why wouldn't he also buy a new set of
ultra sticky tires? Hell, he's gonna spend a mint on the brake upgrade,
why not tires too? So that would definitely give a much shorter braking
distance than the 10.1" system.
(Oh, that was SO much better than the snow tire reference you used,
dontcha think?)
+1 for style
+1 for technical reference
+1 execution.
Jason gets -1 for a bad snow tire reference.  LOL! J/K!



>And sure, the pedal will require less than 1 OUNCE of pedal pressure to
>lock the fronts up (and cause the seatbelts to lock, as you said in
another
>post), 


Yes and this was ONE car's characteristics. As you might recall, I drove
the Audi A3 a while ago which has the 11" brakes. My initial experience
was the brakes were very touchy. But after 10 minutes of driving the car,
I became comfortable with the pedal feel and could modulate quite
effectively. I could out brake anything on the street, and this was with
18" wheels. The stopping distance was amazing, you wanna stop here? BAM!
you are now stopped. This was with ABS but I never activated the system.
(I wasn't willing to push the $30,000 "to be in the LA auto the next day"
showcar that hard.) Potterman did tho.


>but the bottom line is when you MASH the pedal on the 10.1s, 
>they'll get you to 0 just as quick.


Not if you have a decent set of tires. 


>>Has Riley enabled his 10.1's to fade or partial fade? Ever shot a 
>temp
>
>	Not AFAIK... and he's got shitty pads.


Well ive faded 10.1 brakes with crapish pads quite easily.



>Bingo.  That's my point.  If you can do it with 9.4s, and the rest of us
>can do it with 10.1s, then why would someone need 11"s?


Big picture here: Not everybody has a car like mine OR yours. Some cars
weigh alot more and some weigh less. What might work great on my car will
work poorly or not at all on another car. Also the driving habits, likes
and dislikes of other drivers makes a big difference too. 


>>Kewl, I Didn't make either ones point. LOL!
>>you 2 keep discussing while I get another cup of Kona coffee..... 
>
>	Just keep on a'slurping.


Um, I don't slurp actually. Coffee should be sipped to enjoy the full
bodied textures of a fine Hawaiian coffee bean. (Probably made in
Columbia but let me enjoy the thought.) 



>You scream like a girl lots, or you try to kill people lots.


No, I just take them for an autox ride, brake amazing late (I even Make
the Potterman do the "braking dance" in the passenger seat) going into
turns and drive amazing lines to which, people scream. I never intend on
killing anybody while driving my own car. Maybe in your car? Nah!



>Like I said in my past posts, I've done EIGHT consecutive all-out
braking
>tests from 60mph, without any appreciable fade with the Ferodos.  I
think
>it's safe to say that a 110-0 stint (which will, according to physics,
give
>4 times the heat of a 60-0 stop), wouldn't fade my fronts either.  


Well, 110 and 60 are 2 different things. You wont know until you try it. 




><Magaman flame suit - DEACTIVATED>
>Riley can do what he wants! Why do I care?!?



Ut oh, I pissed him off...  :)
Hey, you cant deactivate my Magaman flame suit. I have a secret switch!

(My, isn't that a nice rise from Mr. Jason C.)



>I think Shawn's jealous cause he didn't get a piece of me in Jail like 
>he wanted to. :)


Yah, that's it. SheeeYaaaRight. LOL!



>My point *exactly*.  If we take your (correct) assumption that the
fronts
>do 85% of the braking.  That means that the rears do 15%, right?  
>Okay, theories and what not -SNIPPED-!
>longer to stop than my well-balanced 10s.... see my point? <sounds of
>freebasing suddenly disappearing>


Damn, that sounded like a hell of a coke line snort dude. (Wipe your
nose... there's a little thingie on it. right there, yah, got it.)  :-D
OK. I used the 85% as a guesstimate. I really don't know what the ratio
is other than on ALL cars, the fronts do the vast majority of the
braking. As do the front brake on motorcycles and even Bicycles. 




>Okay, so assuming I am right above (which I am),


Ohhh! So this is what this is all about? <Laughing> Ok, I get it now!


> that means to get the
>proportioning right, you would have to either upgrade the rears, or get
a
>custom proportioning valve.  


No, like I said, the stock prop valve will work 100% as the one used on
the 11" brake system. If you really want to get into details on this,
instead of using a Scirocco 22mm Master cylinder, use the same 22mm MC
but for a Golf. It has more rear pressure than the roc MC. That help?


>Either way, it's gonna cost you MORE on top of
>the 11" swap-- which, if you recall, offers no "safety" margin.  And,
let's
>be realistic here, if you're driving fast enough on the STREETS to fade
the
>10"s, you're not overly concerned about safety, right?


Other than my freeway blasting, which I never do with any traffic, my
fast driving experiencing comments were based on driving on closed
courses AND driving in europe.
Im very concerned about safety to other drivers and pedestrians first,
who ever is in my car second and me third. Right. :)



              Shawn Meze
86' Jetta GLi           82' Scirocco GTi
The Fastest, Quickest, Cleanest and
best looking Scirocco in all of San Diego!
http://www.Geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1308/index.htm

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