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Fwd: Nervous and Twitchy

In a message dated 98-01-07 23:22:25 EST, mannix@privateI.com writes:
> >Mannix, talking about something else, said in part:
>  >..."GAB supposedly makes a very good damper, but no one I know has tried 
> them on a VW.  I am curious.  They are known to be _stiff_, a friend has a
set
>  >for the rear of his DStock Nissan 200SX SE-R, he took them off because
they
>  >were too stiff, made the car nervous and unpredictable. "
>  >
>  >This is the problem I am having with my 81...'Gas-a-Just'
>  >(sp?) on them. Hard to read the manufacturer without pulling the wheel.
<snip>
>  He was referring more to nervousness in corners, not in a straight line, as
>  if it wanted to spin a lot, too twitchy, too responsive to inputs, hard to
>  drive fast.  It sounds to me like there are other problems with your car,
>  not so much stiff rear shocks - the KYBs are not stiff by comparison to a
>  GAB or Koni.
>  
>  >Now I know lots of weight in the rear helps the 50/50 balance, but this is
>  >way too twitchy.
>  
>  Check your rear wheel bearings, with the parking brake off.  I'd bet they
>  are loose - with a full tank, they settle more, but with less weight, the
>  rear wheels can flop a bit, and make the car feel loose.  Also, what
>  alignment do you have?  Lots of toe out can make a car feel nervous on
>  ruts/cracks - it'll dart back and forth a lot.
><self-snip>
>  >Suspension gurus, can you enlighten me? At least  concerning expected
>  >tendencies; "If you do that, this will happen."
>  
>  If your wheelbearings are tight, and alignment is within spec, I don't
>  know.  I guess if the rear wheels(one or both) are severely toed out, IE,
>  bent, the car could be nervous.  I'd bet on rear wheelbearings, though -
>  they are almost always loose on these cars.  A really loose rear
>  wheelbearing will make the car oversteer a bit - as you turn in, it goes
>  from a bit negative to a bit positive, and the car will oversteer. <snip>
>  Best of luck, I.Mannix
>  
>  

Mannix, Thank you. Sound thinking on your part. I do have the same problem in
cornering as well; Only in the rain where grip is low can I take this thing to
the edge. Otherwise it's too unpredictable, too apt to swap ends, or flip
maybe. Feels like the rear outer corner wants to buckel under. I think it's
time to disect things a bit and investigate.
TBerk

---- Begin included message ----
At 4:45 PM -0500 01/07/1998, TBerk16 wrote:
>Mannix, talking about something else, said in part:
>..."GAB supposedly makes a very good damper, but no one I know has tried them
>on a VW.  I am curious.  They are known to be _stiff_, a friend has a set
>for the rear of his DStock Nissan 200SX SE-R, he took them off because they
>were too stiff, made the car nervous and unpredictable. "
>
>This is the problem I am having with my 81...'Gas-a-Just'
>(sp?) on them. Hard to read the manufacturer without pulling the wheel.

KYB shocks, not bad, not great, standard replacement shock.

>
>If I don't keep the tank 3/4 full or more it wont handle right. Jumps around
>on the freeway @ 60-75 mph. GIves no sense of confidence if it's lightly
>loaded.

He was referring more to nervousness in corners, not in a straight line, as
if it wanted to spin a lot, too twitchy, too responsive to inputs, hard to
drive fast.  It sounds to me like there are other problems with your car,
not so much stiff rear shocks - the KYBs are not stiff by comparison to a
GAB or Koni.

>Now I know lots of weight in the rear helps the 50/50 balance, but this is
way
>too twitchy.

Check your rear wheel bearings, with the parking brake off.  I'd bet they
are loose - with a full tank, they settle more, but with less weight, the
rear wheels can flop a bit, and make the car feel loose.  Also, what
alignment do you have?  Lots of toe out can make a car feel nervous on
ruts/cracks - it'll dart back and forth a lot.

>
>Car has both front and rear sway bars, Nuespeed Upper tie bar in the front.
>Aftermarket, 13x6" Gold Honeycomb rims. Not sure of offset.
>
>Suspension gurus, can you enlighten me? At least  concerning expected
>tendencies; "If you do that, this will happen."

If your wheelbearings are tight, and alignment is within spec, I don't
know.  I guess if the rear wheels(one or both) are severely toed out, IE,
bent, the car could be nervous.  I'd bet on rear wheelbearings, though -
they are almost always loose on these cars.  A really loose rear
wheelbearing will make the car oversteer a bit - as you turn in, it goes
from a bit negative to a bit positive, and the car will oversteer.  Sorta
like low, low rear tire pressures.  I've gotten fanatical about keeping my
rear bearings tight - I can feel it on the highway if they even get a
little loose in lane changes - some of the bearings I feel at autocrosses
make me cringe, probably no damage, but I often think "how does he drive
this?!?" to myself while teching the car.  Common occurence.  That's my
first guess.


Best of luck, I.Mannix


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