Re: Sway Bar Synopsis (and a question) GET SRS SUSPENSION!!!

[Jim Buck <vwpride@mixi.net>]

Let me add to this that Bob Tunnell won the SCCA Nationals in ES in 1984 driving a
Jetta with a 2" diameter front bar that he had an RV company bend up for him.

Jim

I. Mannix wrote:

> >From the NG - I'm not quite as religious about the NFB thing as Randy, but
> I basically agree with him.  This XHVex guy seems to buy right into the
> SRS philosophy, if you go to Shine's page and really read it, all they
> really say is "why would you want to put a bar on a car with 65% of its
> weight on the front wheels?"  That's about as far as their "theory"
> goes(or went) last I checked - maybe they've added things since I last
> looked at the page, but if not, all they really said is "We're right.
> You're wrong."  Typical Bostonians, bunch of bastards;).
>
> I.Mannix(<---born in Cambridge, MA)
>
> In article <35da2462.3621706@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, RandyWal@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >xhvex@aol.com (XHVex) wrote:
> >>I have driven a "properly" setup car.
> >
> > But have you driven a properly setup *FWD Volkswagen*?  If you've
> >spent any time in a VW with big swaybars and a conventionally
> >set up suspension you'd find your own setup somewhat lacking.
> >I've done lots of back-to-back testing of various setups on my GTi
> >and in every case a big front bar gave the best handling.
> >
> >
> >>The front sway bar is not appropriate for my car at least a Corrado.
> >
> > Sure it's appropriate for your VW regardless of what you've done
> >to the suspension if anything.   Even a bone-stock VW benefits
> >greatly with the simple addition of a bigger front swaybar. My 86 GLi
> >is proof positive as well as dozens of other stock VWs running big
> >front bars only.   Olaf Brescia installed a big front bar only on his
> >beautiful Corrado VR6 and reported that it worked wonders.  Many
> >other VW drivers can attest to the effectiveness of a big front bar.
> >
> >
> >>You can check out SRSs' suspensions and theory
> >>behind them on their WWW page www.srsvw.com look under suspension.
> >
> > I'm completely familiar with Shine's theory and while it works on a
> >full-on road-race car with super stiff 600 lb front springs,  it's not
> >the best setup for a street or autocross application.  Their system
> >doesn't address the severe body lean that VWs have, it only serves
> >to destabilize the rear while ignoring the real problem which is
> >adverse camber change due to excessive body lean. This can
> >only be controlled by keeping the *front* of the car as flat as
> >possible and that is best served by using a big front swaybar
> >with stock or sport springs for a good ride.
> >
> > Sean Person had a Shine Real Street suspension on his
> >A3 8v GTi and that thing leaned over almost as much as a
> >stock A3 GTi, and his tires were rolling over onto the sidewalls.
> >He later tried the big swaybar approach and the car was totally
> >transformed and now corners much flatter and is way faster.  His
> >is only one example of a big front bar improving handling. There
> >are plenty others here who've done it with much success.  Allen B,
> >Mike Potter, Gustave Stroes,  Jake Russel,  Olaf,  just to name
> >a few :-)
> >
> >
> >>I am sure some VW's may benefit from a front sway but not a Corrado
> >>where over 60% of the weight is over the front wheels?....
> >>Steve
> >
> > That 60% weight bias is *exactly* why you need the swaybar up
> >*front*,  that's where the weight is and that's where all the work
> >is being done.  The swaybar controls all this weight transfer up
> >front and keeps the front tires' contact patch intact and that's
> >where the increased front traction comes from.  Trust me, it's
> >been tried and true.  I've gotten dozens of VW drivers to add
> >a bigger front swaybar to their VW and NONE of em went back
> >to a smaller bar or NFB.  Everyone who got back to me said the
> >big front bar did indeed work better.
> >
> >
> >>The rear sway INCREASES front traction.
> >
> > No, it *Decreases Rear* traction and that's why it induces
> >oversteer.  You cannot increase traction at one end of the
> >car by tuning something at the opposite end. Think about it :-)
> >
> > Increase the roll stiffness at the front of the car First,  then
> >balance out the handling with the rest of the suspension
> >including a bigger rear bar if needed.  Both my cars oversteer
> >on command despite having big front swaybars.
> >
> > Randy
> > 85 GTi (race springs w/25mm front and 28mm rear bars)
> > 86 GLi (stock springs w/22mm front bar only)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy
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