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G grind in DSP?




I was asked this offline, thought it might be good discussion!

>I have been told that I can use the G-Grind cam in SP.  Is this true.
> The G-grind cam is supposed to be a stock replacment.
>
Ahh, I've heard of this one.  I am not sure.  I'll explain.  The rulebook
reads like this - "engines, transaxles and transmissions may be
updated/backdated, but must be replaced as a unit."  What this means is:
You can use any part out of any Scirocco 8v (16v are CSP), but you must use
engines/transmissions as a unit - SO, you CAN use a JH engine in your 80,
but you CANNOT use a 1.6i cam in your JH.  If you want the JH, you have to
use the cam, pistons, crank, etc.  That make sense?  Aftermarket cams are
illegal.


OK, here's how some people rationialize this.  If you go to VW and buy a
solid lifter cam, for a 75 carb rabbit OR an 84 GTI OR a 1.7 Scirocco, you
get the same camshaft.  There are at least 3 cams that VW made for the
solid lifter engine;

1.6i - cam1
1.7i - cam2
1.8i - cam3


Ok, so there might be a specific cam for the 1.5i solid lifter engine,
dunno.  Basically, if you look up (in VW microfiche) a 1.6 Scirocco, you'll
see that it calls for Cam1.  If you look up an 84 GTI, you'll see that it
calls for Cam3.  If you *order* a cam for *ANY* solid lifter head, you wind
up with the same camshaft - I believe it to be the original 1.6i cam.  SO,
it is legal for me to use the 1.6 cam in my JH, *IF* I have the
documentation to prove that the 1.6 cam is the ONLY cam available FROM vw
FOR my car - if you go to the dealer and say "give me a cam for the JH
engine" you'll get the 1.6 cam.  This makes it legal in DSP, even though we
all know that finding a good GTI (JH) cam is easy - this rule is written
for cars that have out of production parts - let's say a 71 BMW 1600 -
pretend that you need a cam for the 71 BMW, and you decide to go to the
dealer because the cam is not to be found anywhere.  The dealer says "the
only cam we sell for that car is the 2002tii cam" you can legally use it,
because the original cam is not available.  This allows people with old
cars to legally run - some companies do not sell/produce parts for old cars
anymore because there is no demand.  VW has done this with solid lifter
cams - VW cams don't really wear out, so instead of selling all 3(4?)
kinds, they sell one that works - if someone (just anyone) needs a cam for
an old Scirocco, they can go to the dealer and get one that works, but VW
does not have to stock the three different part numbers.  Make sense?

OK, so there is a bit of a loophole for the solid lifter head VW engine WRT
cams.  Now, some people claim that the 1.6 from the dealer is the same as
the G grind.  I have not been able to prove this.  I have not been able to
prove it wrong, either.  It is true that there is only one cam available
from VW, but is it the G grind?  I don't (personally) think so.  The 1.6i
cam (US spec) is legal - IF you have the documentation from VW to back it
up.  If you get protested for a cam, and they figure out that you have the
1.6 in a GTI engine, you'd better have the paperwork ready!  If you don't
have the paperwork, you'll be DQd pretty quickly.  No one cares if you say
"but Mannix told me it is true."  I believe it is, you CAN use the 1.6 in
the JH, but the papers are necessary.  I am working on getting the
paperwork as we speak, I have a 1.6 cam to be installed as soon as I get
the papers.

Is the 1.6i cam the same as the Hor g grind that some people are using?  I
doubt it.  Is the 1.6i cam the same as the factory Euro G grind?  I doubt
it.  I believe the euro-g to be more aggresive than the factory US 1.6 cam.
If you put a FACTORY Euro G grind in your car, you *MIGHT* get away with
it.  Maybe.  I don't know.  If it is the same as the 1.6 us cam, yes.  The
SCCA has a "cam doctor" which measures lift and duration - then matches
your cam with specs from VW (which you are responsible to have).  If they
do not match, you're out.


Now, what does this mean.  Umm, if I ever race with someone with an
aftermarket G grind, I don't think I'd protest him/her if I got beaten, but
who knows.  Problem is, if I protest someone, I am responsible to pay for
the teardown of the car - if I win the protest, I get my cash back.  If I
lose, the car owner keeps the cash.  I don't know if the Hor G is visually
different than a stock cam(my G is different - it is a Drake G billet, but
it is clearly aftermarket).  If it is, it would be a cheap protest.  If it
is a factory cam, ie looks like a stocker, we'd have to get it measured -
$$$ - not for me.

For local events, no one is going to protest you.  I am not saying you
should do it, but none of the above will happen at a local event.  At
Nationals, if you beat lots of people with a G grind, you WILL get
protested, and I'd bet you'd lose, if you were using the hor cam (or
equivalent).  If you were using the US spec 1.6 cam, and had the paperwork,
you'd probably be ok.  I think that a bit of a leap has been made from the
US spec 1.6 to the G grind, I think.  They might be right, but if you are
competitive, I would'nt risk it, until you know.  I've looked into it, and
I cannot find the proof for the g grind.  It is true - the 1.6 us spec is
the only cam available - but the question is, is it the euro G grind?  Too
risky for me.


I might be a bit neurotic about rules.  I am very conservative this way.  I
will use stock cams until I KNOW without ANY doubt that it is legal.  Yes,
I am doubtful.  Hope this helps.


Mannix (PS - my GTI cam is a better autocross cam than my G grind, anyway -
more torque.  I have used the 1.6 cam recently, and it is a great
compromise - good torque, and it does not run out of breath above 5500 rpm
- when it all comes together, I'll be using the 1.6;)



>                                      Jay
>'80 Scirocco 8v
>'88 Scirocco V12 turbo 9000 quattro





Mannix


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