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RE>Speaking of Sway bars



This is a big topic so I encourage others to agree with me or disagree.
This is my advice. First I have some questions about your car. How many
miles does your car have on it? Have you hit pot holes or curbs? Are your
rotors old or warped? Is you car in good condition? 
I think TIRES and WHEELS make the biggest difference for most people. Body
roll is the next step in performance that most people notice. The rest is
subtle. The whole car is a system.

Q=question
A=answer

Q
>OK I'm sorry but I haven't been paying a lot of attention when it comes
>to sway bars. I have an '87 16V and was wondering are aftermarket bars a
>world of difference between the  stock sway bars? 

A
I had the stock BOGE shocks VW 16v lowered springs, 16V lower  bars "setup"
at 100,000 mi and I went bigger lower and stiffer all around. The car
drives like new! I say if you got the old parts and the cash you must do
it. My car now has the Hor springs with Bilstein sport shocks, 22mm A1
upgrade front sway and 28mm rear sway bars, with the upper stress bar from
Neuspeed. On the road I have 15" rims with 205 50 ZR 15 Dunlop D40 M2's.
Rim dia and tire side wall / footprint will make a big difference. You can
do better with 16" and better tires but I like my setup. be careful about
rubbing with 205's and lowering. It is a fine line and the rim's offset is
important. Yes the lower bars help. I changed springs and lower bars at the
same time so I can't say what % is the bars vs springs made but the combo
makes the car is worth driving another 70,000 mi. The upper bar was added
later and that made a difference! I drove several cars with different
setups before the changes and this was the best of the test "rides" for me
(your best my vary). In addition to my opinion my friend who is the local
master of VW's had his '8816V setup the same. PS I drive my car like a slot
car so I may get a bit more out of the setup than others.

Q
>I never really thought much about getting sway bars, but something on my
>car is out of align or something about the suspension is wrong. I was
>going to take it into a guy at Midaz (He is good though raced Rabbits in
>the past) I guess he would be a good person to ask too.

A
Yes ask everyone but drive there cars. Test drive cars that are for sale.
The ride is so subjective you must try it out. You can drive mine if you
want but I live in California.

Q
>My car pulls to the left especially under braking and it just has rattles
>and doesn't feel quite right, (can't explain it much better) At 70MPH it
>just doesn't feel real solid what is the best fix for this? It seems the
>feel of the car has declined from a year ago when I first for my BOGE
>shocks and Eibach lowering springs. Maybe these shocks are going bad??
>Who knows they don't have a lot of travel but I don't think they ever
>did.

A
It looks like it is time to check the tires for chipping and uneven wear.
When was the last time the wheels were balanced rotated or changed? Bent
rims can make the car drive like you describe. The suspension may need
bushings and the alignment could be off. The shocks could just be getting
old or thrashed.  First I would try to get the ride back to par with the
rims and tiers. They will tell you what is wrong. Work up from there.

A tire also acts as a spring between the rim and the road.  This spring
characteristic is very important to the vehicle's ride.  Too high an
inflation pressure causes the tire to transmit shock loads to the
suspension and reduces a tire's ability to withstand road impacts.  Too low
an inflation pressure reduces a tire's ability to support the vehicle's
load and transmit comering, braking, and acceleration forces. 

Underinflation can cause many tire related problems.  Since a tire's load
capacity is largely determined by its inflation pressure, underinflation
results in an overloaded tire.  An underinflated tire operates at high
deflection resulting in decreased fuel economy, sluggish handling and
excessive shoulder wear.  High deflection also causes excessive heat
buildup leading to catastrophic tire failure.

The correct profile for full contact with the road which results in optimum
tire performance.  Because radial ply tires have a characteristic bulge in
the sidewall even when properly inflated, it is impossible to visually
determine the degree of inflation.

Tires should be checked monthly for signs of irregular wear in both tread
and shoulder areas.  Irregular wear indicates the need for a wheel
alignment or suspension repairs.  Also, when a replacement set of tires is
fitted to a car, a wheel alignment is mandatory.  Cars with four wheel
independent suspension systems four wheel alignment.

The three elements involved in wheel alignment are angles referred to as
caster, camber and toe.  Each affects the vehicle's performance.

Caster is the angle between a vertical line and a line drawn through the
center of the ball joints (steering axis) when the vehicle is viewed from
the side.

Caster is called positive when the steering axis tilts toward the rear of
the vehicle at the upper steering pivot.  Positive caster helps in
maintaining directional control of a vehicle, tends to return the vehicle
to a straight ahead position when comering, and helps compensate for the
crown on a road.  Most cars are engineered with positive caster.

Improper caster can cause hard steering, increased road shock, reduced
straight line stability and cause the vehicle pull to one side or the
other.

Camber is the angle between a perpendicular line and a line drawn through
the centerline of the tire when the vehicle is viewed from the front.

There are many rotating items in a car's drive train which can cause
vibrations.  Each part has its own range of natural frequencies.  If a
natural frequency is excited the part causes the greatest disturbance as it
vibrates.  Engine vibrations occur at the highest frequency, many hundreds
of vibrations per second, and cause a buzzing or humming sound.  These
vibrations can be felt in the floor or dashboard.  Tire and wheel related
vibrations occur at a much lower frequency, typically 1 0 to 15 times a
second.  This results in the "shake" most of us have experienced.  Even a
small amount of wheel imbalance can translate into vibration problems.
Tire-induced vehicle shake is most often caused by:

(1)     a tire poorly seated on the rim;
(2)     a heavy spot in the tire,
(3)     a stiff spot in the tire, or
(4)     an outofround tire.

The most critical speed for tire-induced shake is from 55 to 65 mph.  At
this speed, a tire rotates at 1O to 15 times per second.  This is the
frequency that corresponds to the natural frequency of a car suspension for
virtually all cars, making shake a potential problem for all drivers.

A heavy spot in a tire or tire/rim combination causes a radial force which
bounces the tire up and down (static imbalance) once per tire revolution. 
This force increases as the cars speed increases.  It is only at higher
speeds, faster than 40 mph, that this weight induced bounce becomes
noticeable.  An out of round tire or wheel causes a once per tire
revolution up and down force that is independent of speed If the vibration
is not evident at low speeds but begins at higher speeds, imbalance is the
likely cause.  If a bounce is felt at very low speeds, the likely cause is
an out of round tire or wheel.  Sometimes a low speed bounce is caused by
"flat spotting".  Make sure the tire is warmed up from several miles of
driving to eliminate flat spotting as a source of low speed bounce.

While the up and down shake or bounce results from a heavy spot in the
tread, the side-to-side shake or wobble (dynamic imbalance) can result from
poor bead seating or a heavy spot in a sidewall.  If both front tires are
affected, the vibration will be added together when both tires are in
phase, and may go away completely after a comer, which causes the outside
tire to roll more than the inside tire.  This tire repositioning can cause
the vibrations to cancel each other.  Soon, however, the tires will be in
phase again, and the vibrations will recur.  Proper balancing can correct
vibrations resulting from heavy spots in tires.

I think the upper strut would help and it simple to install. You need to
put it in the other way from an 8V so check the stickers before you get it
or just take them off. If you don't want to spend $ on lower bars new
bushings may be the low cost fix. You need to get under your car. This page
should be able to generate 20 responses with advice.

Doug 
'87 16V silver Scirocco



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