Re: Suspension questions

["I.Mannix" <mannix@privatei.com>]

At 1:43 PM -0600 04/22/1997, Brett VanSprewenburg wrote:
>I have an 88 16v that I've been adding modification to over the past few
>years.  This question concerns the addition of sway bars.  I have Autotech
>bars, 25mm rear, 22mm front.  I wondering if my setup could cause excessive
>understeer.  When driving hard into a corner, the front end lets go and
>begins to slide outward, but backing off the gas regains grip (BFG ZR3's,
>195-50).  I'm ok with this, but should I do something different to decrease
>understeer?  Should I add an upper rear trunk tie-bar like Eurorace's or
>the triangulated bar from Neuspeed to further 'tighen-up' the back end?
>I would prefer not to replace the 25mm bar with a 28mm since I've already
>got money into it, but if that was the only way to go....Oh, I also have a
>Neuspeed upper front strut tie bar.  Someday, I'd like to autocross so
>what would be the best solution for the street, the autocross, or any
>combination of them.  Again, thanks for any and all recomendations.
>
>
>==Brett

Well, let's see.  The setup you have will not inherently understeer.  There
are better setups, I suppose, but yours is not bad by any stretch.  What
are your alignment settings?  Tire pressures?  Tire pressure is not as
critical, but can make a difference.  Alignment can make a big difference.
As far as the front regaining grip when you lift, that's normal.  It sounds
to me like the car is working OK.  A rear tie bar might help slightly, I
only have experience with the eurosport bar, not the Nspeed triangulated
bar (illegal in DSP, not sure how much the triangulation really helps).  A
bigger swaybar would help, and what you can do is put the stock bar on
upside down.  It works, you have to drill two additional holes, but it
works well.  That would make the biggest difference in the car, IMHO.

Also, look at your driving.  This is sorta classic FWD behaivoir - pretty
much any FWD car will understeer in corners if you go in too hot.  Not a
flame, maybe you're a great driver, but it has been my experience that a
big part of understeer like you're talking about is due to going simply too
fast for the setup.  My GTI will understeer if I go too fast into a corner,
and it is set up pretty well - much stiffer in the rear, and the tires
would not stay on the ground.  It is always faster to go in to a corner
slower, get turned in, and accelerate out, past the apex.  As you describe,
you're having to slow down *in* the corner, which means your exit speed
will be slower.  If you slow down early, turn in, and then accelerate,
you'll be accelerating where you used to be slowing down.

OK, so that might not be what you asked, just looking to my experiences for
insight.  I remember when my car understeered horribly, and I thought I
could change things to make it understeer less.  I bought all sorts of
stuff for it, much of which helped reduce understeer, but the biggest
understeer reducing device I found was driving differently.  Slow in, fast
out.  Get the car slow, trail brake if needed, roll the throttle on - it is
difficult (is for me, anyhow) to find that speed where the car is at the
limit of adhesion at the front, but still on line - just a tick faster, and
the push comes on.  It is interesting at autocrosses when you watch newer
drivers push around a corner and then try to regain speed, where the more
experienced drivers will be accelerating all the way through the corner,
allowing exit speeds to be higher, thereby increasing average speed
greatly.  OK, hope this helps!  Do you have the stock swaybar to put on?
Let me know your alignment settings, might be something there too.  OK,
ttys!


Mannix






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